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Degrees - have they been devalued and are they a waste of time?
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Don't you think degrees have been devalued since the ridiculous ambition of the last government to get at least 50% of school leavers into university? They used to be only for the academically gifted, now every man and his dog can go through uni and come out the other side with some worthless degree that is no use to anyone. I am coming to the conclusion it is a waste of time and money unless you have ambitions to become say a doctor, lawyer, engineer, something that has definate potential of a good well paid career at the end of it. There is no point in just drifting into it, looking for an easy course, then coming out with a huge debt and no job prospects and no idea what career you wanrt. What's wrong with learning a trade or doing an apprenticeship and working your way up through the ranks of a company or organisation? You could have your further education paid for with a salary on top. Going to uni isn't the be all and end all.
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I feel sorry for the youngsters nowadays and I think a lot go to uni because they have no idea what they want to do, or they simply don't fancy a job.
Unfortunately because of the decline in manufacturing there are no longer the apprenticeships which were much valued years ago.
My first husband was an apprentice trained engineer and made a fortune, I started work at 16 straight after my 'O' levels, and my employer paid for me to get further qualifications.
Unfortunately because of the decline in manufacturing there are no longer the apprenticeships which were much valued years ago.
My first husband was an apprentice trained engineer and made a fortune, I started work at 16 straight after my 'O' levels, and my employer paid for me to get further qualifications.
Yes, they have been devalued.
I do not believe that this can reflect badly on those youngsters who decide to undertake a degree..........the fault lays directly with the Mandarins who have consistently tinkered with the education system and brought it down to its present level.
I think the combination of 'all must have prizes' and the need to massage the unemployment statistics created the current system.
I do not believe that this can reflect badly on those youngsters who decide to undertake a degree..........the fault lays directly with the Mandarins who have consistently tinkered with the education system and brought it down to its present level.
I think the combination of 'all must have prizes' and the need to massage the unemployment statistics created the current system.
Absolutely agree. A good degree however from a good university still means something. It seems that kids actually just assume these days that they will go to university and get a degree. In my honest opinion I actually think that the school leaving age should be brought down to 15 and work placed training should be encouraged.
I went to a grammar school which achieved high results with A levels and very few people got university places. Perhaps if standards were higher and kids weren't pushed towards university then we could get back somewhere near the system of grants being available for those who are really university material and who will benefit from the grant.
I went to a grammar school which achieved high results with A levels and very few people got university places. Perhaps if standards were higher and kids weren't pushed towards university then we could get back somewhere near the system of grants being available for those who are really university material and who will benefit from the grant.
You will find that the youth of today don't wish to start at the bottom and work upwards.They want it all as soon as they leave uni and complain if they don't. I work part time for one of the worlds largest banks and i am shocked at the way graduates conduct themselves, thinking they know everything and with little or no respect for their elders. Don't get me wrong some of them are a pleasure to know and will do well in life, but the majority have just wasted a lot of money.
And I agree with you too jth. (all must have prizes). All people should be helped to reach their full potention, but this doesn't mean university for all. And yes, I too think that the idea now of putting up the school leaving age is just to cloud the statistics. Also getting some of those young lads out to work and putting their energies into work might go somewhere towards solving mindless vandalism and bad behaviour in testorone fueled teenagers.
How are Human Resource departments going to manage the job of sifting through the hundreds of applications when (as hoped) 50% of applicants have a higher education qualification of some description?
Is this why we end up with job adverts full of overly-specific required skills?
Sometimes it's as if the whole thing is just a thinly disguised internal promotion but there's some kind of legislation which forcers employers to make recruitment an 'open competition'.
In the sense of their increasing ubiquity (I can't comment on any supposed ease of obtaining one compared to past decades), I concur that degrees have been devalued. On the other hand, it does prove what everybody suspected all along, which is that we're all pretty bright but some of us have to get on with earning a living a.s.a.p. while others can afford to sit back and learn more sophisiticated stuff for a few years.
Is this why we end up with job adverts full of overly-specific required skills?
Sometimes it's as if the whole thing is just a thinly disguised internal promotion but there's some kind of legislation which forcers employers to make recruitment an 'open competition'.
In the sense of their increasing ubiquity (I can't comment on any supposed ease of obtaining one compared to past decades), I concur that degrees have been devalued. On the other hand, it does prove what everybody suspected all along, which is that we're all pretty bright but some of us have to get on with earning a living a.s.a.p. while others can afford to sit back and learn more sophisiticated stuff for a few years.
My own son left uni after 2 years after becoming totally disallusioned with what was happening. He actually wanted to learn and found it a complete waste. He was bored stiff and the standards expected were very low. He hasn't suffered for not having a degree. He ended up with a lesser qualification but has worked hard and is doing well and he is more worldly wise than a lot of graduates.
The stuff of degrees isn't necessarily more sophisticated though hypognosis. My son found that the first year at uni was a complete waste of time as many of the more able students had to wait for others to catch up.
Not all degrees are a waste of time obviously and some are essential. I still have the greatest respect for degrees from the old red brick universities in the traditional degree subjects. They still take in the best students and have the best staff.
Not all degrees are a waste of time obviously and some are essential. I still have the greatest respect for degrees from the old red brick universities in the traditional degree subjects. They still take in the best students and have the best staff.
At one time a degree marked you out as someone academically gifted, and so stood for something. Now one almost has to have one to not fall behind everyone else. No yes, in my opinion the degree has been devalued as it no longer fulfills the function it was previously used to. That stated, I suspect some subjects may have greater perceived value than others. Still it gets folk off the unemployed register for a bit and helps each government to look as if it has achieved something. Not sure who they are fooling though.
As for me, I did do an apprenticeship, and in later years saw graduates come in to do the same job at higher salary, so opted out to prove I was as good as they were. Nothing wrong with employer training if you can find one who is willing to pay & guide you in that direction and not merely want to buy in expertise, or grudgingly pay for training you have to find and convince them would be useful. (Makes one wonder what HR departments think their job is sometimes.) But just don't expect to be valued by your employer as highly. You'll have to fight from a lower starting point to progress.
As for me, I did do an apprenticeship, and in later years saw graduates come in to do the same job at higher salary, so opted out to prove I was as good as they were. Nothing wrong with employer training if you can find one who is willing to pay & guide you in that direction and not merely want to buy in expertise, or grudgingly pay for training you have to find and convince them would be useful. (Makes one wonder what HR departments think their job is sometimes.) But just don't expect to be valued by your employer as highly. You'll have to fight from a lower starting point to progress.
Yes and No is my answer and I am not schizo.
In short yes degrees have become devalued for all the reasons outlined in the answers to your question, David.
No for two reasons - (i) Good Universities like Oxford Cambridge, St Andrews, Imperial, Durham, Nottingham and Bristol etc still count.
(ii) Masters and PhDs still count as standards haven't dropped on those (mostly), though on the MBA, there is some risk. Still can't beat a London Business School, Insead, IMEDE, Harvard, Stanford, MIT, or Northwestern/Chicago on that one though.
In short yes degrees have become devalued for all the reasons outlined in the answers to your question, David.
No for two reasons - (i) Good Universities like Oxford Cambridge, St Andrews, Imperial, Durham, Nottingham and Bristol etc still count.
(ii) Masters and PhDs still count as standards haven't dropped on those (mostly), though on the MBA, there is some risk. Still can't beat a London Business School, Insead, IMEDE, Harvard, Stanford, MIT, or Northwestern/Chicago on that one though.
Quality counts.
There are folk here like Molly who are considering their University selection at the moment. My advice be it a 1st degree, a Masters or an MBA, get yourself into the best 'school' that you can in terms of your brains and the match to what you aspire to academically. The finances come a distant secondary and there are some ways and means to securing the extra funding if you are seriously bright and innovative and I don't mean escorting - though I know of one girl who did that at a prestige business school - deliberately targeting wealthy clients. "Master of Buqqer All" or "Married But Available" may have been appropriate soliloquys for her......
There are folk here like Molly who are considering their University selection at the moment. My advice be it a 1st degree, a Masters or an MBA, get yourself into the best 'school' that you can in terms of your brains and the match to what you aspire to academically. The finances come a distant secondary and there are some ways and means to securing the extra funding if you are seriously bright and innovative and I don't mean escorting - though I know of one girl who did that at a prestige business school - deliberately targeting wealthy clients. "Master of Buqqer All" or "Married But Available" may have been appropriate soliloquys for her......
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