Whatever happened to the British notion of right and wrong?

[naomi24]

Whatever happened to the British notion of right and wrong? Is this country sinking ever more swiftly into the mire? Every day we open our newspapers to find accounts of criminals receiving pathetically light sentences, or being let off altogether. Police are now instructed to let muggers off with a caution, and recently we have had a paedophile let off and told to give money to the child he'd abused "to cheer her up"; a shopkeeper ridiculously charged with kidnapping after making a citizen's arrest on a yob who'd damaged his property; a householder arrested for chasing a catching a burglar who'd broken into his house; and another paedophile, an illegal immigrant, who wasn't sent back to his own country because it was deemed dangerous, going on to attack another child. What's going on in this country? The rights and well-being of the perpetrator, now appear to be paramount - and justice and sympathy for the victim non-existent.

[flip-flop]

Yep, just about sums it up nicely.

You'll get a Guardian reader on soon though telling us it is all society's fault and that we should empathise with the criminal and treat the cause not punish the act.

All uttter b0ll0cks of course.

[jake-the-peg]

You know you're getting old when you moan about how dreadfull the world is!

Cicero said "O tempores, O mores" (Oh the times oh the morals) 2,000 years ago!

People haven't stopped going on about it since!

Still you're in good company - scroll down the News list you'll find endless streams of "youth of today" and "whatever happened to respect" and "They're letting out all the muggers you know!" threads

There was a time that proper News items were discussed here!! "I don't know what the world is comming to!!!!"

[jake-the-peg]

Glad to oblige flip-flop

By the way that's dreadfull language to use in public - I don't know what your mother would have said!


Probably bemoaned what the world is coming to !

[naomi24]

So your answer, Jake, is to ignore it? Oh well, that's alright then. Head back in the sand - until it affects you and yours.

Incidentally, I do consider the incidents I listed to be news, which is why I posted the item in this section. Odd how some can be pedantic with trivialities, but completely nonchalant about things that ought to concern us all - young or old.

[Oneeyedvic]

he point Jake is making is that things are pretty much the same as 20, 30, 40 years ago but with one major difference - YOU. As you get older, you become more sensitive to current events, you get scared when a group of kids are hanging around in a street - a few years back, that was you.

I'm not sure how old you are, but cast your mind back to the battles between the mods and the rockers - go back in the archives and read how many were arrested - and then compare this to the 'dangerous world that we live in'.

Another major change has been the way news is reported. We have alot more newspapers and 24 hour media coverage as well as the internet - ths means that all these media hacks are trying to out do each other - and if needs be make up rubbish stories.

[IggyB]

jake was answering the question asked - if you had wanted a discussion about criminal law reform then you should have asked that instead.

as for me i also don't think that anything has "happened" to the british notion of right and wrong - everything is really very similar to how it ever was... only we now happen to send a lot more people to prison for their crimes than we traditionally used to (approx 20,000 more in prison since labour came to power) - incidentally it should be noted that the overall crime rate hasn't increased at anything near the same level as the increase in those incarcerated.

i think what you are noticing is a change in how the news is reported.

as for what i would like to see done to improve the criminal justice system; i would like to see a greater separation between the courts and government - a freeing of the judges to make the sentencing decisions they felt best fit the crime and a reduction in interference either through govt guidelines or letters from the home office would improve the situation no end in my opinion

[naomi24]

And the point I'm making is that criminals used to be arrested and punished and now they are not. I understand your point about people's views changing as they age, and I agree that they often do, but what is happening in this country is nothing to do with being young or old - the simple fact is the criteria has changed - and mostly over just the last few years. What was once, not so long ago, deemed to be a punishable crime now appears not to be.

Law-abiding householders shouldn't be arrested for catching burglars - the police should be applauding them - and paedophiles certainly shouldn't be allowed to remain free to continue to prey on children. For a judge to release a man who's abused a child and tell him to give her money to buy a bicycle is not only a travesty of justice - it's shameful. How can anyone with an iota of common sense possibly defend that judgement?

[admarlow]

short answer.........''Human Rights''

[anotheoldgit]

With age comes experience, this is why those that are concerned about the the country sinking more swiftly into the mire are generally those who have lived through past times and can now compare them with the present times.
The young, they know no difference this is how they have come to accept the times we are now living through as the norm.
For example when I was a young man we definitely had more police on the streets, so crime on the streets was almost nonexistent. You could not even ride down the road on your bike if your rear light was out, before Mr Plod yelled at you to stop. When we came out of the cinema early (because it was Sunday) we would all congregate in groups in the market place, just to chatter amongst ourselves because it was still early and we had nowhere else to go, but even then the law would move in and break us up. Even the local drunk wasn't allowed to wander back to his abode singing for all his worth, before the Black Maria pulled up, he was bungled inside to spend the night in the slammer.
Yes there was the Teddy Boys and later the Mods & Rockers, but by todays standards they were just a load of softies. No shootings, no stabbings, no kicking in of heads while down, because they knew it would mean the rope if they killed anyone.
Yes we may be old jake-the-peg, oneeyedvic, but at least we knew what it was like in the good old days.

[naomi24]

Thanks for that old git. I'm not quite as old as you, but even so it seems to me that people making excuses for the inexcusable.

[DavidUK]

anotheoldgit is right. Those of us who are older KNOW things have got worse. I grew up on a council estate in the centre of Birmingham in the 50's. It was fairly rough by the standards then but nothing compared to what goes on now.

As a teenager I used to go to nightclubs in the centre of B'ham and then stroll through the city centre in the early hours. I hardly ever saw any trouble and felt perfectly safe.

But, in my late twenties, I found B'ham city centre quite threatening at night - gangs of drunk, noisy hooligans roaming about looking for trouble. I dread to think what it must be like now.

Only last year my children and I were threatened by a pack of teenage scum who couldn't care less for anybody and have no fear of the police and no respect for anyone. And that's in the fairly affluent area where I live now.

Yes, naomi, this country is sinking into the mire.