In What Way Does This Fall Short Of Expectations?

[cassa333]

I cannot see what the problem is.

The only thing I can see really is what about family members who live in another country. Personally I think it should extend only to spouses and dependant children living in the country of origin. Otherwise we will have every hanger on wheeling their way here.

As far as I am aware (although admittedly not legally minded) don't people have to abide by the laws of the land they reside in? So armholes to the EU wanting jurisdiction over the UK residents.

[cassa333]

Sorry forgot the link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40378913

[albaqwerty]

I think the EU leaders are having a hissy fit, but that's just my opinion.
I know a Polish couple who live here, have children, work and pay taxes, (children were born in the UK)
Their family members (mums, dads, siblings etc) have no wish to come to the UK and are happy where they are.

[AB Editor]

If an EU citizen has a non-eu spouse, do you believe they will be under the same £18/£22k earning requirement for the partner to stay in the country?

Personally I think the requirement is an absolutely disgusting way to treat British nationals - and if the naturalising EU citizens have the right to keep their partner in the country without this requirement being imposed, then this will be one of those rare situations where the British are second class citizens in their own country.

If this is the result then May might manage to be an even more disastrous PM than Cameron!

[New Judge]

The EU will not accept a "foreign" jurisdiction (i.e. the UK) determining the rights of EU citizens living here. Quite why that should be is a mystery. I cannot imagine, say, the USA agreeing to a foreign court deciding matters that should rightly be determined by the USA and I cannot imagine the EU insisting on it.

But that's the EU for you.

[Old_Geezer]

It isn't short of any reasonable expectation as an opening offer, and is infinitely better than the unilateral offer by the EU, as far as I am aware.

IMO it simply indicates the mentality of those one has to deal with in the EU and how vital it is not to be part of it. You only have to hear the ridiculous statements from EU officials of late to realise how out of touch with reality they are: seems they prefer to be dreamers.

[Old_Geezer]

Interestingly it often seems that the US believe that their legal decisions take priority over any citizen from any country anywhere in the world. Maybe the deluded EU is simply trying to emulate that.

[jourdain2]

I rather agree with OP. As a point of fact, FACT (you know, those things that seem to be rare today) if you move to France you cannot access social security until yo have 5 yrs. residence. Y ou have to buy full private health insurance.

[Peter Pedant]

also tusk and junckers want equal rights for EU citizens so they dont like the residence qualification - that someone with 6 years residence has different rights to someone with 4.
The Polish family I know wants to bring in every member
but again they work and pay taxes

The younger poles are more philosophical - " I drew stumps to come here and if the govt make it difficult for me I will draw stumps and go elsewhere.... "

[scooping]

It was my understanding that the British government did not want to give guarantees to EU nationals living/working here until it formed part of an agreement giving rights to the many Brits living and working abroad. That seemed reasonable and I am concerned about retirees living, for example, in Spain or Portugal. Might they still be entitled to 'free' healthcare, for example. That position seems to have changed in that we seem to promising rights to other EU nationals without guarantees for our citizens living abroad - and that is concerning.

[scooping]

I was an exiteer and remain one. But I am sure that most of us, myself included, did not fully grasp just how lengthy and complex Brexit would be. And this is just the start of the process.

[Zacs-Master]

^^^^sheesh.

[Old_Geezer]

It doesn't have to be lengthy nor complex. Quibbling about everything hoping to get one over the UK makes it so. But it's just two years of taking no nonsense and hope sense prevails. But not a massive deal if they refuse to play fair.

[Zacs-Master]

It's already lengthy and complex OG, or have you been time travelling?

[shaneystar2]

I've been married to an EU immigrant for nearly 45 years and he's lived here for 42 of those years and paid his way.If Mrs May thinks she's going to use him as a bargaining chip she's got another think coming.She can take her 85 page form for permanent residency and shove it where the sun don't shine.
They've faffed around for a year and done b. all to guarantee the rights of EU citizens here and Brits abroad.It's like living in limbo.
If they have all these negotiations done and dusted within the two year time frame I'll be very surprised.I doubt they could negotiate the way out of their own front doors.

[Zacs-Master]

Which way did you vote shaney?

[shaneystar2]

Zacs ...I voted to remain.

[Zacs-Master]

As did I.

[shaneystar2]

Good lad :)

[Old_Geezer]

I find I travel a second in time every second.

As stated, it is only as lengthy and complex as folk choose to make it. I'm sure folk know by now that one can walk away at any time. Negotiations for the future make sense, but less so when dealing with unreasonable people only interesting in getting the better of you, and totally uninterested in a fair agreement. Their responses and offers expose their attitude, as does their insistence that they control the procedures/rules.

[Old_Geezer]

"Bargaining chip". What nonsense. One side simply asks for a reciprocal agreement, and eventually makes a good suggestion having got fed up of waiting for the other side to agree, and some jump on the chance to denigrate the one starting the discussion, but seemingly are fine with the side who made no effort but simply moaned and made daft comment at the fair reasonable offer.