invoice wording

[joko]

I have done some work for a slightly lower fee on the understanding that when they make more money from the project, I will be paid the rest.

on the invoice i want to add the fee payable immediately but also the deferred fee.

there is a slight chance I won't get anything as it may not make enough money (pretty sure it will, but you never know eh?)
so i cant write a set date or any sort of deadline etc

I just want some wording that makes it clear that there are 2 amounts payable and one will be paid first and that the other will be considered ongoing until such time as they make enough cash.


i did consider a separate invoice, but thught maybe itd be better to keep the agreement all on one so it cannot 'go missing', or be signed off as paid etc...?


thanks

[Eve]

You could use defined terms with a definition of each at the start then use of the terms throughout to less complicated to read.

Eg. "Set Fee" and "Conditional Fee".

[bednobs]

do you have a defined amount for "more money"? If you do could you just split the invoice in 2? top half for the work undertaken with "ummediate payment required" bottom half for the amount that says "payayble when the project makes ....." (although how will you know when the project makes this?)

[mojay]

Could you put job description as usual

then -amount to be paid immediately xx
balance to be paid on completion xxy

= total £xxy etc

[EcclesCake]

What was the wording of the terms and conditions you both agreed to? I'd reflect those on the invoice.

How will you know when the project has reached the threshold, published accounts an audit or old fashioned honesty?

[joko]

thanks all. i havent had the contract through yet, its all been agreed by email so far.

yes there is a set amount for deferment, and yes i suppose i just have to hope they are honest - i have personal assurance from 3rd party that they are good people and they do seem really nice and we hope to work together again sometime, so hopefully it will all work out - i only agreed to it because its quite a lot of money for one extra day - more than the 2 other days put together - and it was either agree to it or only take the lesser immediate 2 day payment and just dont turn up for the last day ...
so, figured i may as well accept that as its only one extra day... and i wasnt doing anthing else that day, and i didnt want to just do half a job and let them down - its my name on it after all.
if i dont get anything i wont have lost anything really, if you get me, just a day of my time.

is there a way to check what a film earns?

[EcclesCake]

So many people think that working in film and TV is easy money and productions are awash with money, so far from the truth.

It is a tough call, you want to protect your reputation and be co-operative but I do wonder if you production companies take the pee sometimes.

To answer your question, I'm sure you can find out how much on box office takings but what about TV and DVD revenue??? That could roll in for a long while after release......

[joko]

eccles, yes you're dead right... its hard to know what to do sometimes
there are so many companies who will take the piss and ive had that happen before, but also many who are genuine and just need a hand to get going and will reward when they can - no way to know which is which sadly ... so i am wary, and would not have accepted it if itd been more than a days work.

its an indie company so they do have limited resources, i do know that

[Eve]

Maybe put some kind of producer on demand clause for a properly valued figure on demand within a reasonable period of asking?

[thenry]

Invoice them at your normal rate and, if they don't pay up, try to make a payment arrangement , and if they don't keep to it, take legal action !

[buildersmate]

"i did consider a separate invoice, but thught maybe itd be better to keep the agreement all on one so it cannot 'go missing', or be signed off as paid etc...?"

I think your idea is fraught with difficulty. If you invoice it, you are surely going to have to show the sum as a 'creditor' amount in your income statement (I take it you are self-employed) - and invoice is a request for payment, tied to the invoice date.

But the liability of the organisation to pay doesn't trigger until some future date and some future threshold.

And another thing - unless this is a tiny organisation, who and how do you expect in that organisation to keep tabs on whether you are due payment or not. Accounts payables won't want to know - its an irritant to them to have an unpaid invoice on the ledger. The signing authority may not want to keep it - so the simple reality is that YOU are going to have to badger them (the signing authority, presumably) on a regular basis to establish whether the payment threshold has been reached. Since you are going to have to do that badgering, you might just as well raise the second invoice at the future date if/when the payment threshold has been reached.

The 'wording that makes it clear that there are 2 amounts payables' should be in the contract wording - not in your invoice.

[EcclesCake]

I have to admit I do do the odd day of speculative work, where I may or may not get paid but I see it as an investment in my future as it may reap benefits from future work. It's swings and roundabouts at the end of the day, if I have nothing scheduled what am I losing out on?

Trying to get the right wording on an invoice is harder than the speculative working though ;-)

[thenry]

An invoice will sit about at the bottom of a bookkeeper's in tray, maybe get posted to an accounts system, maybe someone will print out an aged creditor report and say "Oh look, we owe this money !" The point is that you should not have done the deal unless you really intended to do it for nothing, and why invoice at a lower rate ? Ever heard of cash ?

[buildersmate]

Either joko has got a contract that says she'll be paid at a rate of £x per day plus a fixed amount of £y if a threshold pqr is reached, or she hasn't. Phaffing around trying to insert such clauses into an invoice to tie the other party contractually isn't going to work.

My point about the creditor sum and being self-employed wasn't well-explained. It would surely mean that you would have to declare the income to HMRC in the current tax year (because it has been invoiced), pay tax on it, then reverse the income as a bad debt if the threshold isn't exceeded. Far too much complexity.

[chrissa1]

Doesn't the "Royalties Commission", if that's their name, set down rules that would help you joko?

[Ellipsis]

buildersmate has it all correct.

Details of fees, bonuses etc. go on the contract, not the invoice.

As and when an event occurs that triggers a payment due under the terms of the contract, you should raise an invoice. On the invoice you should refer to the contract and the event that has caused the invoice to be raised.

How you determine that an event has occurred could also be in the contract. The onus could be on them to tell you, or you to ask them. In any case, you should diarise phoning them on regular occasions to determine whether you're owed anything more and, if you are, raise another invoice.

[EcclesCake]

From what Joko has said all there is an agreement in principle but an actual contract hasn't been signed up to and the work has been done.

Perfect? No.
Common situation in film and TV? Yes.
Desirable for tax reasons? No, but it happens.

I'm still trying to work through in my mind how it can be resolved, there is a way as it is not uncommon, although the lack of agreed contract is going to be the bugbear.

[Ellipsis]

At the very least you send them an email stating what you understand the terms of your working relationship to be, and ask them to reply confirming it.

[joko]

thenry...what? not many companies pay people in cash...
the very point of sending a dual invoice is exactly so it stays in their current accounts as not fully settled! so they cant 'lose' it or just file it away and forget about it...i will keep it in their minds

buildermate - thanks for your replies - so what should i do then?

there is a contract, but i havent received it yet - as i say we agreed everything by email.

should i just send 2 invoices, so it can be kept separate until time to pay?

and yes i would contact them regularly so they know i am not going away.

i would not want to declare the invoice amount until it is settled as too much hassle, and the chance it wont be paid at all... hence the note that there is no definite payment

[joko]

yes everything will be detailed in the contract of course but the accounts person they may in say 6 months time may not have the contact to hand and also be unaware there is any need to check it - hence why i wanted to clarify what the various fees are for and when... just to be extra clear.

if it gets stamped as paid then it may be overlooked in future ... i was thinking to clarify it by noting thats it 'part paid', not full

they are a newish small company and i dont know how good they are at keeping books etc and having 'events that trigger payment'.