Define Crime

[nailit]

Theres been a lot of discussion on other threads that ive read about criminals and prison. What intrigues me is the blanket term 'criminal' to cover everyone who is incarcerated. Obviously everyone who is in prison is deemed a criminal.
But it seems to me to be an unfair assumption to lump everyone together in the same bracket. ie, you've committed an offence, ergo you're a criminal.
Some years ago I committed the offence of stealing a pack of sandwiches from Tesco. I don't dispute I committed an OFFENCE. However I was literally starving and homeless. I had no money for food at the time and was sleeping rough. But does it make me a CRIMINAL to want to survive?
Not so long ago homosexuality was an imprisonable offence but we dont consider homosexuals criminals anymore.
In the same way, we dont consider alcoholics criminals because possessing alcohol is not a crime but we consider drug addiction to be a crime by default because to be an addict you will have to possess illegal drugs.
We all know that child abuse, mugging old ladies and stealing others property is wrong, but do you think that there might be a difference between committing what society deems an offence and been a criminal?

[Ken4155]

My own simplistic take on it is; if you break a law (however trivial) you have committed a crime, ergo you are a criminal. Simples.

[nailit]

Thank you for that considered opinion Ken, thats answered all my questions...
No need now to make new laws or repeal outdated ones eh?

[woofgang]

if the law is repealed or changed or a new law is made that changes who is and is not a criminal, but it doesn't change the definition of criminal.

[nailit]

//if the law is repealed or changed or a new law is made that changes who is and is not a criminal, but it doesn't change the definition of criminal.//
In law, yes. But would YOU consider that everyone who is convicted of an offence a criminal?

[boxtops]

By definition yes - as Ken says, one who commits a crime is a criminal.

[Ken4155]

I am a criminal! When the poll tax was introduced i rebelled against it, joined all the marches, etc, etc, etc and ended up in court on numerous occasions and received fines totalling more than the dreaded tax. Repealing certain laws now does not excuse anyone who committed them prior to the repeal. Didn't mean to sound so flippant, earlier, and in some instances the law may be an ass. But it is the law. By the way, nailit, being a drug addict is not a crime! It is the possession of the drugs that is the crime.

[pixie373]

Technically, yes, if you break the law you're a criminal - there are different degrees though. Perhaps there should be a different word (or is there already) for somebody whose crime is due to mental illnesses, rather than just being evil. Could a starving person claim stealing food is self-defence maybe? It's complicated.

[Ken4155]

pixie; that's rather a slippy slope to go down. A drug addict 'needs' his next fix just as much as a starving person would need food. So, by your definition, if the drug addict were to mug someone or steal something to sell in order to pay for his fix, could he also claim 'self defence'?

[pixie373]

No. He doesn't need drugs to survive. I'm not suggesting that's how it should be- just thinking out loud really and giving some suggestions. Nobody could claim that stealing to buy heroin (for example) has saved their life.

[inksplotter]

If you travel at 35 mph in a built up zone does that make you a criminal?

[woofgang]

If the speed limit is less than 35 then technically yes. There may well be a difference between what the law considers criminal and therefore by definition is criminal, and what society, or bits of it, consider wrong.

[nailit]

Ken,
//I am a criminal! When the poll tax was introduced i rebelled against it, joined all the marches, etc, etc, etc and ended up in court on numerous occasions//
I take my hat of to you sir, I really do. I admire that kind of rebellion. (probably not the right word but thats what comes to mind)
//being a drug addict is not a crime! It is the possession of the drugs that is the crime.// Thats why I said in my post 'by default'.
Pixie //Could a starving person claim stealing food is self-defence maybe?//
self defence or survival it was (is) a crime that ended up in court.
And that the point that im trying to get at. Does committing an offence make someone a criminal?
And once your labelled a criminal its hard to shake off.

[nailit]

woofgang has just hit the nail on the head and what im trying to get at.

[woofgang]

YES! a criminal is someone who has broken the law. That is the definition of what a criminal is!!!!!!

[pixie373]

Yes, i suppose it is, but the time to allow for mitigating circumstances is before the trial, so they can be taken into account - however a Court might not be 100% correct every time. There is supposed to be a very high incident of ADHD in the prison population and I'm sure other conditions, which should have been treated and might have prevented some crimes.

[nailit]

Oh God! I'm getting a headache...

[nailit]

so woofgang, 100 years ago a homosexual was a criminal but not now?

[nailit]

Pixie, theres an unusally high percentage of the prison population that has mental health problems. That of course doesnt excuse 'criminal' behaviour.But it does raise the question about 'labelling' people with the tag of criminal.
Not everyone in prison is a career criminal. Not everyone in prison is a child abuser, mugger, rapist or granny basher.
Committing an offence does not make one a criminal (in my view anyway)

[DTCwordfan]

Driving at 35mph in a 30 zone is not a crime - it is a civil offence. Not all infringements of the law are crimes, many are such civil offences. However, to be in prison, then you will have committed a criminal act - even acts like failing to pay fines, perjury and ignoring Judges orders can be deemed as crimes, and hence can be imprisonable.

[ichkeria]

(Where's New Judge en you need him :-)
There are two types of law and therefore offence: criminal and civil. Not all offences bring criminal records with them as far as I am aware.
In any case you are not a "criminal" in the legal sense of the term unless you have been convicted of a criminal offence.
Not to be confused with the non-legal terminology which is just a term of abuse basically.