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real bad accountancy advice?
15 Answers
i have recently (10 months ago) told my accountancy firm i was taking my business elsewhere because there rates went through the roof.
i was told (verbally) that the yearly rate was going to be aroung �1500 but when they sent the bill it was �3000.
as you can imagine i refused to pay but gave them a payment (not full and final) of �1500 and told em to sue me. they wont!!!
my new accountants cant do my companies house return because my old accountants wont release any paperwork, they had spoken to companies house but they said there hands were tied...........now, i have had a fine off companes house/inland revenue for �8888.00
i could tare my hair out as business is hard enough without these pitfalls?
any ideas on what i should do?
i was told (verbally) that the yearly rate was going to be aroung �1500 but when they sent the bill it was �3000.
as you can imagine i refused to pay but gave them a payment (not full and final) of �1500 and told em to sue me. they wont!!!
my new accountants cant do my companies house return because my old accountants wont release any paperwork, they had spoken to companies house but they said there hands were tied...........now, i have had a fine off companes house/inland revenue for �8888.00
i could tare my hair out as business is hard enough without these pitfalls?
any ideas on what i should do?
Answers
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You have to pay the accountants bill. Something similar.....I started work for someone and realised the accountant hadn't even looked at a bank statement! I advised him to move to a new accountant which he did. We needed the information and was told that the old accountant didn't have to give us it until the final invoice was paid.
We had to pay him.
When was the company house annual accounts due, and why is the Inland Rev fining you?
We had to pay him.
When was the company house annual accounts due, and why is the Inland Rev fining you?
He said....
Was it a fixed price agreement with the old accountant?
What does the stationary say - ie, HM Inspector of taxes - HM Revenue and Customs?
What does the letter say?
If it was from companies House it would be on Companies house letter head.
He also said that the fine for not submitting the annual accounts is �100, if you still haven't submitted it after 2 years it can go up to �1,000
He also said, bless him, that he would take a look at it for you free of charge because I told him you were my friend.
Was it a fixed price agreement with the old accountant?
What does the stationary say - ie, HM Inspector of taxes - HM Revenue and Customs?
What does the letter say?
If it was from companies House it would be on Companies house letter head.
He also said that the fine for not submitting the annual accounts is �100, if you still haven't submitted it after 2 years it can go up to �1,000
He also said, bless him, that he would take a look at it for you free of charge because I told him you were my friend.
ummmm...
1. my old accountant said "verbaly" "it will be around the same figure as last year!
2. revenue and customs letterhead.something if remember about it being ct tax or something like that. the letter is in my office?
3. companies house have been chasing my accounts but i actually spoke to them 3 weeks ago and advised them that i was speaking to my new accountant, i then rang my new accountant and he said "i will pop down to you on tuesday and we will sort it out" he never came and i was that busy i forgot to chase them.
4. i am still only 1 year behind at the moment.
thanks ummmm for speaking to him, my accountant wont answer his mobile today, i reckon he knows?
1. my old accountant said "verbaly" "it will be around the same figure as last year!
2. revenue and customs letterhead.something if remember about it being ct tax or something like that. the letter is in my office?
3. companies house have been chasing my accounts but i actually spoke to them 3 weeks ago and advised them that i was speaking to my new accountant, i then rang my new accountant and he said "i will pop down to you on tuesday and we will sort it out" he never came and i was that busy i forgot to chase them.
4. i am still only 1 year behind at the moment.
thanks ummmm for speaking to him, my accountant wont answer his mobile today, i reckon he knows?
It's corporation tax. It could well be estimated from previous years. When is your year end? I presume your old accountant didn't submit your accounts to the inland revenue either?
I think you will probably have to pay the old accountant if it was just a verbal agreement. The reason they wouldn't rush to take it to court is because they know that you need your stuff without it you miss deadlines and incur fines.
Companies house are no where near as harsh as Inland Revenue so I wouldn't too much about it. Give them a bell, they are really helpful.
Give me a shout when you pop to your office and read the letter.
I think you will probably have to pay the old accountant if it was just a verbal agreement. The reason they wouldn't rush to take it to court is because they know that you need your stuff without it you miss deadlines and incur fines.
Companies house are no where near as harsh as Inland Revenue so I wouldn't too much about it. Give them a bell, they are really helpful.
Give me a shout when you pop to your office and read the letter.
I totally agree with your sentiments .
The office junior upstairs plays with his calculator for an hour or so ,then the secretary puts it all neat in a posh folder the nthe second lkd appears some months later to discuss it in the board room :of course he's got half of it wrong cus he can't read so they type a new set and hey presto that will be six hundred quid please.
On a more catious note Iwas investigated by the gestapo the very first year of trading and it was not pleasant so do hang on to them cus they will respect your acct more than you unless you have a very good relationship with your local office, inwhich case do them yourself
The office junior upstairs plays with his calculator for an hour or so ,then the secretary puts it all neat in a posh folder the nthe second lkd appears some months later to discuss it in the board room :of course he's got half of it wrong cus he can't read so they type a new set and hey presto that will be six hundred quid please.
On a more catious note Iwas investigated by the gestapo the very first year of trading and it was not pleasant so do hang on to them cus they will respect your acct more than you unless you have a very good relationship with your local office, inwhich case do them yourself
My firm do written fixed price quotes, outlining fees.
The get out clause is if the books are not delivered to us in the agreed state, whereby we have to immediately stop preparation of accounts and speak to the client to renegotiate the fee upwards. If we do finish the work at extra cost without haviing spoken to the client in advance about the extra work and renegotiation...then its generally tuff sh!t for us....we incur the loss.
I would be sorely tempted to threaten to sue the Accountants, and threaten to report them and go to the press.
I have seen a firm owned by someone I worked with years ago do similar stuff and get someone set up a website dedicated to slagging him off , asking for other contributors to put their stories on the site.
I think the Chartered Institute Ethics says that non payment is no escuse for non releasal of records. Check if your former accountant is Chartered (ICEAW) or Certified (ACCA).
Ring the Institute in question and ask for their policy on the matter.
If faced with bad publicity in local paper, or online, coupled with Institute wrapping their knuckles I believe the firm will back down and release the info.
The get out clause is if the books are not delivered to us in the agreed state, whereby we have to immediately stop preparation of accounts and speak to the client to renegotiate the fee upwards. If we do finish the work at extra cost without haviing spoken to the client in advance about the extra work and renegotiation...then its generally tuff sh!t for us....we incur the loss.
I would be sorely tempted to threaten to sue the Accountants, and threaten to report them and go to the press.
I have seen a firm owned by someone I worked with years ago do similar stuff and get someone set up a website dedicated to slagging him off , asking for other contributors to put their stories on the site.
I think the Chartered Institute Ethics says that non payment is no escuse for non releasal of records. Check if your former accountant is Chartered (ICEAW) or Certified (ACCA).
Ring the Institute in question and ask for their policy on the matter.
If faced with bad publicity in local paper, or online, coupled with Institute wrapping their knuckles I believe the firm will back down and release the info.
Dains are Chartered Accountants
Here is the complaints page of the Chartered Institute Website
http://www.icaew.co.uk/index.cfm?route=139178
Dains are a member of "UK200 Group"....which is kinda a grouping to gether of "quality professional firms..solicitors and accountants". It is basicly an advertising ploy being firms grouping together to say "we are the best". BIg firms probably wouldnt bother coz theyd rely on their own name as quality assurance.
You could ring UK200 Group and speak your grievances, and maybe Dains will issue a credit note for the overcharging.
http://www.uk200group.co.uk/
Its possible that UK200 Group will speak to Dains and suggest they bite the bullit as bad publicity may affect the other firms who are members of this group.
Your accounts are late with Co Ho....fines start at �100 for 3 months, then �250 after another 3 months, and rise to �1,000 I think. Possible striking off of the company will be threatened by Co Ho.
Likewise the Inl Rev will issue estimated asessments and penalties and surcharges.
I think you firstly need to contact the ICEAW (Chartered Institute) and ask them their policy on releasing info to new accountants as Im sure they say outstanding debt is no good reason not to release info to new accountant. Tell them exactly the circumstances about how you were overcharged. If you were not warned in advance then Dains are at fault. The fact it was verbal quote of fees not written may be more difficult to prove, however written quotes are becoming more standard in the industry so they should have given you a written quote.
I think the potential bad publicity of this all may cause Dains to give in.
Here is the complaints page of the Chartered Institute Website
http://www.icaew.co.uk/index.cfm?route=139178
Dains are a member of "UK200 Group"....which is kinda a grouping to gether of "quality professional firms..solicitors and accountants". It is basicly an advertising ploy being firms grouping together to say "we are the best". BIg firms probably wouldnt bother coz theyd rely on their own name as quality assurance.
You could ring UK200 Group and speak your grievances, and maybe Dains will issue a credit note for the overcharging.
http://www.uk200group.co.uk/
Its possible that UK200 Group will speak to Dains and suggest they bite the bullit as bad publicity may affect the other firms who are members of this group.
Your accounts are late with Co Ho....fines start at �100 for 3 months, then �250 after another 3 months, and rise to �1,000 I think. Possible striking off of the company will be threatened by Co Ho.
Likewise the Inl Rev will issue estimated asessments and penalties and surcharges.
I think you firstly need to contact the ICEAW (Chartered Institute) and ask them their policy on releasing info to new accountants as Im sure they say outstanding debt is no good reason not to release info to new accountant. Tell them exactly the circumstances about how you were overcharged. If you were not warned in advance then Dains are at fault. The fact it was verbal quote of fees not written may be more difficult to prove, however written quotes are becoming more standard in the industry so they should have given you a written quote.
I think the potential bad publicity of this all may cause Dains to give in.
cheers zorro,
the �8888 was a estimated return and penalty which has been suspended till 5th december, they have given my new accountant permission to Guess the accounts with a promise that when we get the old accounts from dains they have to be sent in.
i will look at the websites you have supplied tomorrow in my office and get some action onto dains.
thanks again zorro, you have been very helpful!!!
the �8888 was a estimated return and penalty which has been suspended till 5th december, they have given my new accountant permission to Guess the accounts with a promise that when we get the old accounts from dains they have to be sent in.
i will look at the websites you have supplied tomorrow in my office and get some action onto dains.
thanks again zorro, you have been very helpful!!!
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