Road rules2 mins ago
What is the legal definition of 'living' somewhere?
We have permission to convert a building on our land to a holiday let, but we cannot live there on a permanent basis due to planning restrictions, which we would like to do if the legal status of the building ever changed. We're selling our current home (also on our land) to pay for the conversion.
My wife and I disagree over a solution that I have proposed:
After we have sold our home, and done the conversion, we "live" in the local Travelodge, where we simply sleep.
Every day we leave the hotel, go to the conversion and do what we usually do - work the land, tend the animals, grow veg. - spending all day there, using the facilities - water, cooker etc. At the end of the day, we lock up and go back to the hotel.
My wife says that this is not possible as: our (nosey) neighbours would inform that we were 'living' at the property; as we have no permanent address, we would not be on the electoral roll and the local authorities would regard the proposed arrangements as 'living' at the holiday conversion; that a holiday let is not allowed to be a permanent address for the purposes of Royal Mail deliveries and we could not receive any mail at the property.
Neighbours aside, is there a legal definition of 'living' somewhere? Is it where you sleep? Is there a certain number of hours per day that say that you must be at a property that defines 'living'? I maintain that if I owned an allotment and spent as much time as I wanted there then that would be no different from what I am proposing, as I simply go back to a 'base' to sleep.
I'm ambivalent about buying a new permanent house for various reasons and would try to arrange a deal with Travelodge to get a good rate for (almost) permanent residence. A couple featured in the papers a couple of years ago who live permanently in Travelodges around the country and they arranged an excellent deal with the company.
Anyone got any opinions/legal definitions?
My wife and I disagree over a solution that I have proposed:
After we have sold our home, and done the conversion, we "live" in the local Travelodge, where we simply sleep.
Every day we leave the hotel, go to the conversion and do what we usually do - work the land, tend the animals, grow veg. - spending all day there, using the facilities - water, cooker etc. At the end of the day, we lock up and go back to the hotel.
My wife says that this is not possible as: our (nosey) neighbours would inform that we were 'living' at the property; as we have no permanent address, we would not be on the electoral roll and the local authorities would regard the proposed arrangements as 'living' at the holiday conversion; that a holiday let is not allowed to be a permanent address for the purposes of Royal Mail deliveries and we could not receive any mail at the property.
Neighbours aside, is there a legal definition of 'living' somewhere? Is it where you sleep? Is there a certain number of hours per day that say that you must be at a property that defines 'living'? I maintain that if I owned an allotment and spent as much time as I wanted there then that would be no different from what I am proposing, as I simply go back to a 'base' to sleep.
I'm ambivalent about buying a new permanent house for various reasons and would try to arrange a deal with Travelodge to get a good rate for (almost) permanent residence. A couple featured in the papers a couple of years ago who live permanently in Travelodges around the country and they arranged an excellent deal with the company.
Anyone got any opinions/legal definitions?
Answers
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Having lived in the depths of rural East Sussex now for over 14 years I am afraid that I must agree with your wife.
I don't know the definition of "living"(your Council may be able to advise you),but I do know that the Council would be very suspicious if (as your wife so rightly says) you have no permanent and fixed address(and are at the holiday let every day).
The Council will assume that you are using the Travelodge as a "smokescreen" and are actually using the holiday let as somewhere to live.As you will appreciate.the Council do not have the time,money,or officers to keep a check on who is living in the holiday let,they can only go on where you are living when you are not at the property.
Please bear in mind that Council officials have seen ALL these ways round rules and regulations,and will think (rightly or wrongly) that this is what you are doing.
I also believe that just sleeping at the property is not the SOLE definition of living there.All the things you propose to do there are also included,as you will be (in the day) occupying the property.If the Council officials were to keep an eye on the property,and saw you were there every day,then they would ask (naturally) just where the guests of the holiday property were?
As I said before Councils have seen people try every way to get around these rules,and failing.
I am with your wife on this,I am sorry but I think she is right,you would be making a rod for your own back.If you are found to be contravening the rules the Council would probably revoke the holiday let permission,and then where would you be?
You would have a property that you couldn't let OR live in,and might even have problems selling.
Please think and decide very carefully on this.
I don't know the definition of "living"(your Council may be able to advise you),but I do know that the Council would be very suspicious if (as your wife so rightly says) you have no permanent and fixed address(and are at the holiday let every day).
The Council will assume that you are using the Travelodge as a "smokescreen" and are actually using the holiday let as somewhere to live.As you will appreciate.the Council do not have the time,money,or officers to keep a check on who is living in the holiday let,they can only go on where you are living when you are not at the property.
Please bear in mind that Council officials have seen ALL these ways round rules and regulations,and will think (rightly or wrongly) that this is what you are doing.
I also believe that just sleeping at the property is not the SOLE definition of living there.All the things you propose to do there are also included,as you will be (in the day) occupying the property.If the Council officials were to keep an eye on the property,and saw you were there every day,then they would ask (naturally) just where the guests of the holiday property were?
As I said before Councils have seen people try every way to get around these rules,and failing.
I am with your wife on this,I am sorry but I think she is right,you would be making a rod for your own back.If you are found to be contravening the rules the Council would probably revoke the holiday let permission,and then where would you be?
You would have a property that you couldn't let OR live in,and might even have problems selling.
Please think and decide very carefully on this.
Pretty much agree with Mr V on this one.
The way some councils deal with this is to force that the accommodation cannot be occupied for more than 11 months of the year - that would be a condition of the planning. There are probably other formulae to get the same result. You are trying to evade the rules and I reckon you will get found out.
The way some councils deal with this is to force that the accommodation cannot be occupied for more than 11 months of the year - that would be a condition of the planning. There are probably other formulae to get the same result. You are trying to evade the rules and I reckon you will get found out.
I agree with you and disagree with your lady and Mr V. Firstly there it is not humane for them to ask money from people, just because they have managed to save to have their own property! Second it is against human rights to ask someone where he lives. However the council people are inhumane, so you need to win in different ways. There are many ways, e.g. first make a change to your property and leave them to claim it as uninhabitable, this places you in a band G exempt to life (or till they revoke the prohibition order, which will never happen). You can let your property, as long as you say in the tenancy agreement that it is up to the tenant to ensure he use the property ONLY for legal uses. You say to council your human rights are breached and you live in hotels (pay cash and save no receives), in the wild (you just lov it), etc legal places and you can even tell them that because you believe your human rights are breached you decided not to ever pay them anything, unless it is a service that you ask for (not being forced for). Anyway council will tell they dont care, so you take their decision to the valuation tribunal (its all online and send the form via email) so they make an appointment and they cancel the decision of the council and you have council tax exempt property for life.
This is how you do it, and this is how it should be! It is your property! It is your and your family savings! There is no human on earth that should disturb your freedom to ask you for money just because you have a property! Note that meantime the council will threaten you that they will impose a force sell of your property to recover their fees, as this is what they target to sell cheap your property to their friends and take the rest of the money and give you very little money to lie to them selves that it is not a day rubbery : ) Well in the end of the day you should pity these people who are suppose to be public SERVANTS, but instead they are playing to be public ENEMY No:1! I believe that people should gather and stop that law/legislation as med-evil. So it is NOT a question of IF, but WHEN will we take actions?
This is how you do it, and this is how it should be! It is your property! It is your and your family savings! There is no human on earth that should disturb your freedom to ask you for money just because you have a property! Note that meantime the council will threaten you that they will impose a force sell of your property to recover their fees, as this is what they target to sell cheap your property to their friends and take the rest of the money and give you very little money to lie to them selves that it is not a day rubbery : ) Well in the end of the day you should pity these people who are suppose to be public SERVANTS, but instead they are playing to be public ENEMY No:1! I believe that people should gather and stop that law/legislation as med-evil. So it is NOT a question of IF, but WHEN will we take actions?
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