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Laying the blame
Melanie Philips and Max Hastings have laid the blame for the recent riots on the 'liberal intelligensia'...but I've been thinking...
Shouldn't we look at British society and ask ourselves, "Have we set a good example?"
We have politicians fiddling their expenses.
We have bankers almost bankrupting the country and being rewarded with huge bonuses.
We have journalists bugging the phones of the parents of murdered children.
We have police in cahoots with certain sections of the press.
Could it be argued that Britain is sick from the top downwards, rather than the opposite way around?
Shouldn't we look at British society and ask ourselves, "Have we set a good example?"
We have politicians fiddling their expenses.
We have bankers almost bankrupting the country and being rewarded with huge bonuses.
We have journalists bugging the phones of the parents of murdered children.
We have police in cahoots with certain sections of the press.
Could it be argued that Britain is sick from the top downwards, rather than the opposite way around?
Answers
i think one thing that is endemic from top down/bottom up is that as a society we appear to be full of individuals and corporations that consider if you can get away with something illegal or even immoral, then you might as well do it.
08:42 Fri 12th Aug 2011
It would appear that way but I feel that is a too simplistic approach .
No society can operate at any level if society does not have the tools to do it .
You can not have discipline in schools if teachers are not allowed to exercise it and if they do they end up in court .
The police are not allowed to stop and search suspects .
If they grab hold of a thug they are accused of using excessive force.
Social workers are not allowed to insist on seeing an abused child .
In fact no one in authority can do their job without violating someones human rights.
In addition those parents who do try to control their offsprings are told they could face a charge under the child protection act.
I wonder how much compensation will be paid out to all these thugs whose faces appear on TV Facebook or Twitter. Clear case for the human rights brigade.
No society can operate at any level if society does not have the tools to do it .
You can not have discipline in schools if teachers are not allowed to exercise it and if they do they end up in court .
The police are not allowed to stop and search suspects .
If they grab hold of a thug they are accused of using excessive force.
Social workers are not allowed to insist on seeing an abused child .
In fact no one in authority can do their job without violating someones human rights.
In addition those parents who do try to control their offsprings are told they could face a charge under the child protection act.
I wonder how much compensation will be paid out to all these thugs whose faces appear on TV Facebook or Twitter. Clear case for the human rights brigade.
modeller
I have to take exception with your assertion on stop and search. Police have those powers in my part of London, and the use of this tactic is widespread (I see it in tube stations all the time).
Yes, police can be accused of using excessive force, but in a free society, we SHOULD be able to challenge the police, and they then should be in a position to defend themselves and prove that the force was necessary.
With regards to compensation - I can't think of any case where the police have released CCTV images in the hunt for law-breakers and have then been sued under the HRA!
I have to take exception with your assertion on stop and search. Police have those powers in my part of London, and the use of this tactic is widespread (I see it in tube stations all the time).
Yes, police can be accused of using excessive force, but in a free society, we SHOULD be able to challenge the police, and they then should be in a position to defend themselves and prove that the force was necessary.
With regards to compensation - I can't think of any case where the police have released CCTV images in the hunt for law-breakers and have then been sued under the HRA!
I don`t think people are going to become immoral because of rich bankers, politicians fiddling expenses or journos bugging phones. The problems are must more fundamental than that. The lax laws may allow people who have the propensity to behave in a disgusting way to try it because they know they might get away with it but they are not the cause (IMO)
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sp Re Stop and search . When it first came out some years ago there was a
reduction in crime but then the do gooders stepped in and now the police to have a 100% suspician in order to carry it out, and if they get it wrong they can end up paying compensation . As a result the thugs know that the odds are they are going to get away with it . We all are searched at the airports for our common safety its no big deal . If you want to live in a free society you must allow the police keep the peace . At the moment the thugs are encouraged to challenge anyone in authority. We are paying the price of // SHOULD be able to challenge the police //.
reduction in crime but then the do gooders stepped in and now the police to have a 100% suspician in order to carry it out, and if they get it wrong they can end up paying compensation . As a result the thugs know that the odds are they are going to get away with it . We all are searched at the airports for our common safety its no big deal . If you want to live in a free society you must allow the police keep the peace . At the moment the thugs are encouraged to challenge anyone in authority. We are paying the price of // SHOULD be able to challenge the police //.
I think it is unlikely, sp, that many of those taking part in the riots had much knowledge of the scandals you mentioned. I haven’t heard too many of those interviewed suggesting that they stole their fifty inch plasma TVs in retribution for the bankers almost bringing the country to its knees.
For forty years children in the UK have been forced fed a diet that told them they are untouchable. They have not been informed of the boundaries, they have been told that they could not be disciplined by their parents, by other adults, by teachers or the police. Nobody must tell them what to do or not to do. When on the rare occasions they do come before the courts the penalties they suffer are derisible. Visit a Magistrates’ Court on Youth court day to see what I mean. You won’t be allowed into the courtroom as youth proceedings are held in private to protect the sensitive little mites but you can observe their behaviour in the waiting areas and outside the court. It is a jolly day out for them, a place where those of like mind can congregate for the morning and have a laugh at the “justice” that is handed down.
We now have second and third generations who have been brought up to believe that they and their children are the centre of the universe. Most of those taking part in the activities of the last few days are not poor, not dispossessed and not oppressed. In fact, as has been shown by the examples shown in the press today, some of them come from extremely privileged backgrounds. They may not have everything that they think they deserve but that does not give them the right to behave as they have.
Ms Philips and Mr Hastings are right. Governments in the last t forty years or so have encouraged the breakdown of the fabric that holds society together. They have encouraged single parenthood and the breakdown of the family, and presided over a spectacular decline in State education standards by putting the child at the centre of the classroom. Pupils have their “rights” imprinted in their minds in the place that fifty years ago would have included their nine times table.
Children have been told they can do what they want and we mustn’t be surprised that suddenly some of them have decided to do just that.
For forty years children in the UK have been forced fed a diet that told them they are untouchable. They have not been informed of the boundaries, they have been told that they could not be disciplined by their parents, by other adults, by teachers or the police. Nobody must tell them what to do or not to do. When on the rare occasions they do come before the courts the penalties they suffer are derisible. Visit a Magistrates’ Court on Youth court day to see what I mean. You won’t be allowed into the courtroom as youth proceedings are held in private to protect the sensitive little mites but you can observe their behaviour in the waiting areas and outside the court. It is a jolly day out for them, a place where those of like mind can congregate for the morning and have a laugh at the “justice” that is handed down.
We now have second and third generations who have been brought up to believe that they and their children are the centre of the universe. Most of those taking part in the activities of the last few days are not poor, not dispossessed and not oppressed. In fact, as has been shown by the examples shown in the press today, some of them come from extremely privileged backgrounds. They may not have everything that they think they deserve but that does not give them the right to behave as they have.
Ms Philips and Mr Hastings are right. Governments in the last t forty years or so have encouraged the breakdown of the fabric that holds society together. They have encouraged single parenthood and the breakdown of the family, and presided over a spectacular decline in State education standards by putting the child at the centre of the classroom. Pupils have their “rights” imprinted in their minds in the place that fifty years ago would have included their nine times table.
Children have been told they can do what they want and we mustn’t be surprised that suddenly some of them have decided to do just that.
// For forty years children in the UK have been forced fed a diet that told them they are untouchable.
Children have been told they can do what they want and we mustn’t be surprised that suddenly some of them have decided to do just that. //
The vast majority of young people are normal, law abiding and fine citizens. A couple of hundred young criminals go on the rampage in a city of several million and suddenly everyone under 40 years of age is a waste of space. Complete tosh.
Children have been told they can do what they want and we mustn’t be surprised that suddenly some of them have decided to do just that. //
The vast majority of young people are normal, law abiding and fine citizens. A couple of hundred young criminals go on the rampage in a city of several million and suddenly everyone under 40 years of age is a waste of space. Complete tosh.
I don't think New Judge has demonised all young people, I worked with enough to know that the majority are great and that what we have seen represents a small percentage. However, New Judge is perfectly correct, they are Untouchable and they know it. Wotyergonnadoaboutit and his brother Yercantmakmidonowt are well known to teachers and they are well supported by their breeders, usually of the female variety, Iknowmirites. For the last forty years teachers have worked with their hands tied behind their back, they can't give "lines", cruel apparently, they can't give detentions without parental consent, Guantanamo Bay comparisions, and they can't raise their voices, intimidating and inhuman it seems. Remember, these sneering little scrotes you see are delicate little flowers to be cherished! Any attempt at being civilised is looked upon as a weakness, say Excuse me on a corridor and the response is often Wotyerdun, although the response Been brought up properly isn't popular.
As for a suggestion that all the other ailments, corrupt politicians, journalists etc affect these dears and their social development is laughable, they don't steal 42 inch TVs to watch Newsnight, a large percentage wouldn't be able to name the PM, ask any History teacher, in any conflict since 1066 Adolf Hitler and/or Saddam Hussein will be involved, that isn't an indictment of the teaching, simply an indication of the lack of involvement in learning, too much effort needed by my last friend Duzzmi'edin.
As for a suggestion that all the other ailments, corrupt politicians, journalists etc affect these dears and their social development is laughable, they don't steal 42 inch TVs to watch Newsnight, a large percentage wouldn't be able to name the PM, ask any History teacher, in any conflict since 1066 Adolf Hitler and/or Saddam Hussein will be involved, that isn't an indictment of the teaching, simply an indication of the lack of involvement in learning, too much effort needed by my last friend Duzzmi'edin.
As judge said,
most of them don't know whats going on in the UK, and probably don't give a damn.
Some of them cant spell, write or speak correctly, this is not because of bad schooling/tuition, its because they don't want to learn!
Maybe if their parents brought them up with discipline and taught them to respect where they live, it might be different, but I doubt it.
most of them don't know whats going on in the UK, and probably don't give a damn.
Some of them cant spell, write or speak correctly, this is not because of bad schooling/tuition, its because they don't want to learn!
Maybe if their parents brought them up with discipline and taught them to respect where they live, it might be different, but I doubt it.
Can't believe how many "youth workers" this week blamed everything and everyone apart from the theiving scumbags responsible.
All that nonsense about youth clubs shutting down, no jobs etc
Where were all these youth workers before the riots?
Saying these people don't know right from wrong, after hearing some of them talk, they wouldn't know right from left!
All that nonsense about youth clubs shutting down, no jobs etc
Where were all these youth workers before the riots?
Saying these people don't know right from wrong, after hearing some of them talk, they wouldn't know right from left!
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It all boils down to loss of respect for authority. When parents fail or are prevented from ever saying NO!. The children go to school believing they can do what they like. In the past the teachers would have had the power to instil some discipline but most of their sanctions have been removed or severely reduced. Just go to some infant schools and see the behaviour of the little 5 year old Hitlers. Unfortunately most of the teachers themselves have never known what discipline is, so even if they were now given the power they wouldn't know how to use it.
This pattern carries on into life , there is no respect , for doctors , for the police , for firemen , for the law , for society. At every level authority has been undermined . All in the name of freedom and human rights.
This pattern carries on into life , there is no respect , for doctors , for the police , for firemen , for the law , for society. At every level authority has been undermined . All in the name of freedom and human rights.
The blacks have been blamed for much of the violence. In my immediate area it is mainly white with a sprinkling of others, of which one family are black. They are very religious , as are many black families, but the only violence in the street involving a knife was committed by their son . That was several years ago but the interesting thing is , what became of him ? He became a vicar !
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