ChatterBank6 mins ago
childrens holidays
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can anybody help??? my wife and myself both work full time and find it hard getting the same week off, but we managed a week in november and booked a holiday, however it is in term time and the school have refused our request to take her out for a week and are saying they will fine us both £120 if we take her out unauthorised. my argument is that she has a 98% attendance record much better than some of her peers, there is also at least one other child who gets time off during term time for "religious beliefs" and also more perplexing is that the school take children out of school on holidays during term time....skiing, rock climbing etc for one or two weeks. this is surely double standards. our mp has written a letter of complaint saying these are draconian methods......has anyone else had these problems .if so what did you do to get around it ??? thanx
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Is this a state school, a free school, an academy or an independent fee-paying school?
If it is a state school there is a route to appeal, but as the rest are basically their own kingdoms there's little you can do but pay up.
So if you're dealing with a state school, try the following in this order - don't circumvent the order or you'll create unnecessary opposition.
1. See the head and write to the head personally ie don't be fobbed off with 'in a meeting', 'talk to the secretary'. Schedule a meeting face to face with the headteacher and explain your work position, plus the fact that any work issued by teachers will be done during the week, and any homeworks completed. Don't mention or raise any other child's alleged access to school-time leave - this will give the HT leeway to say you are being prejudiced. And lay it on thick about your leave pattern, stress, etc etc. and the child's good attendance record.
2. Ask the HT to reconsider and to give the decision the next day - don't hold out for a decision on the spot as it will be easier to say no. In the best of cases the HT will need to consult teachers about setting work.
3. If the answer is still no, write to the chair of the governing body with the same request.
If the school your child attends is a 'good' school they are more likely to be a bit precious about this issue. Lairey schools have that many kids unaccounted for anyway that they will probably just be pleased you asked.
Lastly, go on holidy anyway and wait for the bill for the fine to come in. Sometimes these are just empty threats. I wonder if any Abers have direct knowledge of the process used for raising an invoice for a parent - the effort involved is probably counter-productive at school office level.
In lairey schools most families will simply say they've got no money if the school tries to fine them. There is absolutely no prospect of a local authority seding in the bailiffs for £120.
If it is a state school there is a route to appeal, but as the rest are basically their own kingdoms there's little you can do but pay up.
So if you're dealing with a state school, try the following in this order - don't circumvent the order or you'll create unnecessary opposition.
1. See the head and write to the head personally ie don't be fobbed off with 'in a meeting', 'talk to the secretary'. Schedule a meeting face to face with the headteacher and explain your work position, plus the fact that any work issued by teachers will be done during the week, and any homeworks completed. Don't mention or raise any other child's alleged access to school-time leave - this will give the HT leeway to say you are being prejudiced. And lay it on thick about your leave pattern, stress, etc etc. and the child's good attendance record.
2. Ask the HT to reconsider and to give the decision the next day - don't hold out for a decision on the spot as it will be easier to say no. In the best of cases the HT will need to consult teachers about setting work.
3. If the answer is still no, write to the chair of the governing body with the same request.
If the school your child attends is a 'good' school they are more likely to be a bit precious about this issue. Lairey schools have that many kids unaccounted for anyway that they will probably just be pleased you asked.
Lastly, go on holidy anyway and wait for the bill for the fine to come in. Sometimes these are just empty threats. I wonder if any Abers have direct knowledge of the process used for raising an invoice for a parent - the effort involved is probably counter-productive at school office level.
In lairey schools most families will simply say they've got no money if the school tries to fine them. There is absolutely no prospect of a local authority seding in the bailiffs for £120.
All you can do is ask again but if you get the same answer then it's your choice- take the holiday and pay the fine or forget the holiday. In joining a school we have to accept the school's rules and policies on these things. I don't agree with your MP that' it's draconian. I think my perspective may be a little biased, however, as I'm a teacher and I know the adjustments I need to make to help students catch up on work they missed.
Perhaps both kids could come down with an "illness" that week. Would be up to the school to disprove it. Now that you have drawn attention to the dates it may backfire. Plus it is very dishonest. I sympathise with you, we will have this issue next year as the little lad goes to school next September!
i would not imagine the school will adjust their argument - if they gave you permission they open themselves up to hundreds of parents trying to make appointments with the head teacher to talk about how difficult it is having a family these days and why they need a holiday in term time.
- 98% attendance doesn't mean you have leeway to stop attending for a while to bring your average down. Its not about doing the bear minimum necessary.
- One child getting time off to celebrate their religious holiday is not the same as a child taking a cheap beach break - you must be able to see this?
- Where a school trip is planned the teaching plans will be adjusted accordingly - this won't happen for your child so they will miss out on their education.
I think you just need to accept that life is difficult at the best of times and when you have children you have made the decision to make it even harder - if you want your child to receive a state funded education then you need to play by the schools rules.
- 98% attendance doesn't mean you have leeway to stop attending for a while to bring your average down. Its not about doing the bear minimum necessary.
- One child getting time off to celebrate their religious holiday is not the same as a child taking a cheap beach break - you must be able to see this?
- Where a school trip is planned the teaching plans will be adjusted accordingly - this won't happen for your child so they will miss out on their education.
I think you just need to accept that life is difficult at the best of times and when you have children you have made the decision to make it even harder - if you want your child to receive a state funded education then you need to play by the schools rules.
This won't answer your question but I do feel that the school is right - but the government needs to intervened with the crazy travel agent prices for travel during school holidays - it's a disgrace. But agree with earlier comment that surely the saving will cover the fine - and if the family time is important, breaking even is perhaps the best you can hope for.
i think you should definitely take your holiday.
it always amazes me how many people would deny children the wonderful experience of a family holiday - something many kids dont get - just for the sake of missing a few hours worth of each subject.
The memories and learning experiences gained by these holidays is far more worthy and beneficial to any child than 2 weeks sitting in the same old classroom, that they sit in for 5 years...
just because it means the teachers have to keep aside some catch up lessons and study materials etc to help the kids catch up is hardly a good enough reason to deny someone this potentially once in a lifetime opportunity
i remember and treasure the holidays we had as a child
quality family time is more important than school.
it always amazes me how many people would deny children the wonderful experience of a family holiday - something many kids dont get - just for the sake of missing a few hours worth of each subject.
The memories and learning experiences gained by these holidays is far more worthy and beneficial to any child than 2 weeks sitting in the same old classroom, that they sit in for 5 years...
just because it means the teachers have to keep aside some catch up lessons and study materials etc to help the kids catch up is hardly a good enough reason to deny someone this potentially once in a lifetime opportunity
i remember and treasure the holidays we had as a child
quality family time is more important than school.
“There is absolutely no prospect of a local authority seding in the bailiffs for £120.”
They won’t have to. The process for dealing wth an “unauthorised” absence is that the education authority will request that a fixed penalty of £50 to be paid within 28 days. If it is not paid it goes up to £100 and if that increased amount is not paid within 42 days a summons under Section 444(1) of the 1996 Education Act will be issued. The maximum penalty under this legislation is a fine of up to £1,000 and upon conviction the Magistrates will levy a fine based on income. If this is not paid as directed the court may well involve bailiffs to recover the debt and if this is unsuccessful the defaulter will be called back to court to establish if wilful refusal to pay has been evident. If so a prison sentence may be imposed.
Another sanction could be a prosecution under Section 444 (1A) which involves “Colluding in and condoning non-attendance or deliberately instigating non-attendance” (which anyone taking their child out of school for holidays certainly does). The maximum penalty for this offence is a fine of up to £2,500 and/or imprisonment for up to three months, but this option is rarely used.
“just because it means the teachers have to keep aside some catch up lessons and study materials etc to help the kids catch up is hardly a good enough reason to deny someone this potentially once in a lifetime opportunity “
What it means in reality, joko, is that the teachers have to divert their attention and resources away from those pupils who have attended school properly and spend their time on those who have not. Fair? I think not.
They won’t have to. The process for dealing wth an “unauthorised” absence is that the education authority will request that a fixed penalty of £50 to be paid within 28 days. If it is not paid it goes up to £100 and if that increased amount is not paid within 42 days a summons under Section 444(1) of the 1996 Education Act will be issued. The maximum penalty under this legislation is a fine of up to £1,000 and upon conviction the Magistrates will levy a fine based on income. If this is not paid as directed the court may well involve bailiffs to recover the debt and if this is unsuccessful the defaulter will be called back to court to establish if wilful refusal to pay has been evident. If so a prison sentence may be imposed.
Another sanction could be a prosecution under Section 444 (1A) which involves “Colluding in and condoning non-attendance or deliberately instigating non-attendance” (which anyone taking their child out of school for holidays certainly does). The maximum penalty for this offence is a fine of up to £2,500 and/or imprisonment for up to three months, but this option is rarely used.
“just because it means the teachers have to keep aside some catch up lessons and study materials etc to help the kids catch up is hardly a good enough reason to deny someone this potentially once in a lifetime opportunity “
What it means in reality, joko, is that the teachers have to divert their attention and resources away from those pupils who have attended school properly and spend their time on those who have not. Fair? I think not.
how so NJ?
are you suggesting that a teacher would sit and ignore the rest of the class in order to organise a few bits of teaching material to give to the absent student?
no - they would wait until the end of class and do it then... so how is it affecting the other students?
the only person who has a minor inconvenience is the teacher ... how hard is it to put some printouts, a text book, a few web links or whatever into a little folder for the child? Hardly a great hardship.
its not like loads of kids need it doing every lesson.
are you suggesting that a teacher would sit and ignore the rest of the class in order to organise a few bits of teaching material to give to the absent student?
no - they would wait until the end of class and do it then... so how is it affecting the other students?
the only person who has a minor inconvenience is the teacher ... how hard is it to put some printouts, a text book, a few web links or whatever into a little folder for the child? Hardly a great hardship.
its not like loads of kids need it doing every lesson.
No I’m not suggesting that teachers would sit and ignore the rest of the class whilst helping those who have absented themselves to catch up, joko. But some resources would have to be diverted away from those who have attended properly and that is unfair. It isn’t just a case of “providing a few bits of teaching material”. Furthermore, whilst we are only talking about one child here, if widespread absences were allowed during term time such that children were being removed almost at will by parents the situation would be completely unmanageable. I’ll not go on about this aspect but perhaps factor30 could provide us with some information about how much of “minor inconvenience” this can be for teachers. Furthermore it becomes extremely difficult for head teachers to deal with truancy if pupils see their classmates disappear for a week or two to travel to Majorca. There is not much difference in the minds of children between that and taking a week off to roam around the local shopping centre.
Schoolchildren get around 14 weeks (over 26%) holiday each year. If parents cannot arrange to take their children away to provide their precious “memories and learning experiences” then their children will have to manage without them.
Schoolchildren get around 14 weeks (over 26%) holiday each year. If parents cannot arrange to take their children away to provide their precious “memories and learning experiences” then their children will have to manage without them.
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