ChatterBank2 mins ago
Gbh With Intent...section 18
hi, i am looking for some advice..my daughter ran away to england when she was 16yr with a guy much older than her..he was very abusive to her, a fact we were unaware of..he is know for carrying knives and at present is wanted for a stabbing over there, he and my daughter had an argument in a park when she was 16(2yrs ago) which resulted in my daughter stabbing him in the arm after he threw her to the ground, dragged her up and held her in a bearhug..the knife was his..she was carrying it as he is always getting stopped by the police..she was arrested bailed all without our knowledge that she had to appear in court, as her boyfriend at the time told her that there would be nothing more about it..her uncle collected her from outside a care home that the police dropped her off at as she was only 16..we received no notification that she had any court appearances..she has spent the last 2yrs completing her leaving cert and was supposed to be starting university this month..she went over to liverpool for the creamfields festival before starting uni and was arrested and charged with gbh with intent..the boyfriend only recently changed his statement saying that she went to his aunts house got a kitchen knife and came back to the park with it..he has received compensation as a result..he has restraining orders against him for a previous girlfriend and as ive said is wanted in england for a stabbing at present..he is on the run over here in ireland somewhere...my daughter has made enormous progress in the last 2yrs..she works closely with the garda here and youth services as her uni course is a BA in community studies so she can work with youths in addiction...she has never been in trouble before, can anyone advise what sentenced she will get..she has admitted stabbing him in the arm but only through self defence..there are 2 independent witnesses saying they saw her walk into the park with something that glinted in sun..she says it was her phone..the same witnesses also state that they were arguing and he pushed her to the ground and then had her held in a bear hug..and was laughing at her...can anyone advise.?
Answers
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The first thing her solicitor/
04:04 Mon 01st Sep 2014
The first thing her solicitor/barrister will probably need to do is to examine the evidence relating to the injuries sustained by the guy. A 'GBH' charge (irrespective of whether it's 'with intent' or not) requires a particularly serious level of injury in order to obtain a conviction. From the CPS website:
"Examples of what would usually amount to really serious harm include:
injury resulting in permanent disability, loss of sensory function or visible disfigurement;
broken or displaced limbs or bones, including fractured skull, compound fractures, broken cheek bone, jaw, ribs, etc;
injuries which cause substantial loss of blood, usually necessitating a transfusion or result in lengthy treatment or incapacity;
serious psychiatric injury. As with assault occasioning actual bodily harm, appropriate expert evidence is essential to prove the injury"
So, unless the guy needed a blood transfusion or suffered a long-term disability, a charge of ABH might be more appropriate.
It would also be necessary to consider whether a plea of 'self defence' can be used. The basic principle of law is derived from a 1971 precedent: "It is both good law and good sense that a man who is attacked may defend himself. It is both good law and good sense that he may do, but only do, what is reasonably necessary."
However the law also recognises that, when being attacked, it's unlikely that someone will be able to step back from the situation and carefully assess what is reasonable. From the same 1971 ruling: "If there has been an attack so that self defence is reasonably necessary, it will be recognised that a person defending himself cannot weigh to a nicety the exact measure of his defensive action. If the jury thought that that in a moment of unexpected anguish a person attacked had only done what he honestly and instinctively thought necessary, that would be the most potent evidence that only reasonable defensive action had been taken ..."
So, as I see it, it's unlikely that the CPS has got a good case for a Section 18 (or Section 20) GBH conviction. There's also some doubt as to whether they could obtain a conviction for 'ABH' if a plea of 'not guilty' is entered. (Your daughter needs to take the advice of her solicitor/barrister with regard to deciding whether to plead 'not guilty' on the grounds of self defence. Most attempts to use 'self defence' in such a way are usually doomed to failure but your daughter's case may well be an exception).
If your daughter was convicted (or either ABH or GBH with intent) she would have to sentenced as minor (because it's her age at the time of the incident, rather than her current age, that's applicable). A sentence for GBH with intent (even for a juvenile) is almost always custodial. (The minimum sentence for an adult offender is 3 years imprisonment, except under very unusual circumstances). An ABH conviction involving the use of a knife could also well result in a custodial sentence but non-custodial sentences are also available to the court.
Your daughter needs to seek the advice of her solicitor (and ideally insist upon a meeting with the barrister who will be representing her at Crown Court also present). Very careful consideration needs to be given to whether she should plead:
(a) guilty to GBH with intent (although I can't see it likely that such an option would be advised) ; or
(b) not guilty of GBH with intent but guilty of ABH (which the CPS might accept before the case gets to court anyway); or
(c) not guilty of any form assault (on the grounds of self defence).
One last thought:
The CPS might be forced to drop the case anyway if their star witness is on the run himself!
"Examples of what would usually amount to really serious harm include:
injury resulting in permanent disability, loss of sensory function or visible disfigurement;
broken or displaced limbs or bones, including fractured skull, compound fractures, broken cheek bone, jaw, ribs, etc;
injuries which cause substantial loss of blood, usually necessitating a transfusion or result in lengthy treatment or incapacity;
serious psychiatric injury. As with assault occasioning actual bodily harm, appropriate expert evidence is essential to prove the injury"
So, unless the guy needed a blood transfusion or suffered a long-term disability, a charge of ABH might be more appropriate.
It would also be necessary to consider whether a plea of 'self defence' can be used. The basic principle of law is derived from a 1971 precedent: "It is both good law and good sense that a man who is attacked may defend himself. It is both good law and good sense that he may do, but only do, what is reasonably necessary."
However the law also recognises that, when being attacked, it's unlikely that someone will be able to step back from the situation and carefully assess what is reasonable. From the same 1971 ruling: "If there has been an attack so that self defence is reasonably necessary, it will be recognised that a person defending himself cannot weigh to a nicety the exact measure of his defensive action. If the jury thought that that in a moment of unexpected anguish a person attacked had only done what he honestly and instinctively thought necessary, that would be the most potent evidence that only reasonable defensive action had been taken ..."
So, as I see it, it's unlikely that the CPS has got a good case for a Section 18 (or Section 20) GBH conviction. There's also some doubt as to whether they could obtain a conviction for 'ABH' if a plea of 'not guilty' is entered. (Your daughter needs to take the advice of her solicitor/barrister with regard to deciding whether to plead 'not guilty' on the grounds of self defence. Most attempts to use 'self defence' in such a way are usually doomed to failure but your daughter's case may well be an exception).
If your daughter was convicted (or either ABH or GBH with intent) she would have to sentenced as minor (because it's her age at the time of the incident, rather than her current age, that's applicable). A sentence for GBH with intent (even for a juvenile) is almost always custodial. (The minimum sentence for an adult offender is 3 years imprisonment, except under very unusual circumstances). An ABH conviction involving the use of a knife could also well result in a custodial sentence but non-custodial sentences are also available to the court.
Your daughter needs to seek the advice of her solicitor (and ideally insist upon a meeting with the barrister who will be representing her at Crown Court also present). Very careful consideration needs to be given to whether she should plead:
(a) guilty to GBH with intent (although I can't see it likely that such an option would be advised) ; or
(b) not guilty of GBH with intent but guilty of ABH (which the CPS might accept before the case gets to court anyway); or
(c) not guilty of any form assault (on the grounds of self defence).
One last thought:
The CPS might be forced to drop the case anyway if their star witness is on the run himself!
Oops!
I forgot the links:
Definitions of 'ABH' and 'GBH':
http://
Definition of 'self defence':
http://
Sentencing guidelines (for adult offenders):
http://
Youth sentencing:
http://
I forgot the links:
Definitions of 'ABH' and 'GBH':
http://
Definition of 'self defence':
http://
Sentencing guidelines (for adult offenders):
http://
Youth sentencing:
http://
Thank you Buenchico..your answer has been extremely helpful..i shall address the issues you raised with her barrister, i am flying over to see him thursday and it will be a plus on my behalf to have the information received from you..once again your very indept answer has been very helpful..best wishes..
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