Query Over England Lockdown

[bobbinwales]

Am asking for a brother (tho he doesnt know it a hope!) in England in an area which were Tier 3 (Nottingham) but is now part of the national lockdown.

So, he and he's wife sometimes look after two of there young grandchildren (of son and daughter in law) on the day when there not at nursery, and allso look after another two (for daughter and soninlaw while they go out) on some Saturdays or Sundays . Thats all fine, am sure, under the lockdown rules as child care will be allowed, rightly so.

But they also have their famlies- children and grandchildren- round for meals at least two nights a week and sometimes they stay overnight or go out shopping together. Tonight it seems all four have gone round for fireworks.

They say that as there looking after the children who live with the parents theres no extra risk in having these family gatherings and they are sure its all allowed.

In away am pleased for him and can see the logic but am also a bit worried that his not following the spirit of the rules and maybe breaking the law. Am also worried he and his wife are vunerable and they may pick corona up from the grandchildren from nursery or his children from there work. But he jokes that am just jealous because I ca'nt visit him and his lovely famly or visit my friends and famly in Wales.

Sorry for the long post, but does anyone know whether what there doing is allowed for in the rules or laws or whether its not allowed. Now maybe you think my nose should keep out of it but thats not what am asking. Allso am not asking for comments on whether the lockdowns are really needed or whether corona is exaggarated ect, just clarafacation of the rules

[woofgang]

so can I ask why you are asking?

[bobbinwales]

Thanks woofgang. Its nagging me and a think him but am not really sure whether to leave it or say something if asked. Yes am worried there at risk of someone reporting them especially for the overnight stays but allso the risk as a know his childrens social life style and there are cases at nurseries altho a know children themselfs are not at risk . Allso a know his not really convinced he should be letting them all visit so am wondering whether to say anything if it crops up.

[THECORBYLOON]

There are Support Bubbles and Childcare Bubbles but the guidance says they cannot be mixed so they must be kept separate.

For Support Bubbles, at least one of the households must have only one adult.

*****You must not meet socially with your support bubble and childcare bubble at the same time. Childcare bubbles must be used exclusively for the purposes of childcare*****.
Link to childcare bubble guidance https://www.gov.uk/guidance/making-a-childcare-bubble-with-another-household#if-youre-in-a-support-bubble

Link to Support Bubble guidance
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/making-a-support-bubble-with-another-household

[bobbinwales]

Thanks corbyloon, will look through it tomorrow and decide whether to say nothing and act dumb (not hard) if he mentions it again or more likley suggest he reads it if he says his in any doubt. Will hopefully sleep better tonight than last night.

[Buenchico]

" No person may leave or be outside of the place where they are living without reasonable excuse"
[Regulation 5(1), The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (England) (No. 4) Regulations 2020]

Regulation 6 provides exemptions which come within the definition of 'reasonable excuse'. Paragraph 12 (f) of that Regulation cites "for the purposes of informal childcare, for children aged 13 or under, provided by a member of a household to a member of their linked childcare household".

To form a "linked childcare household", the household that has one or more children (aged under 13) in it 'links' to a second household in order that the adult(s) in that household can provide informal childcare for the children from the first household. However, once that has been done, neither household can then form such a link with any other household, even if the original link is broken.
[Regulation 13, ibid]

So your sister-in-law is breaking the law every time she leaves her home to babysit on Saturdays or Sundays. (That assumes that she's already entered into a 'linked family household' to look after the other children when they're not at nursery). The reason that her daughter and son-in-law are going out on Saturday or Sunday evenings might also be relevant; unless they're going out, say, to do essential shopping, they'll also be breaking the law. (They can't leave their homes purely for social purposes).

Similarly, irrespective of the rules on 'gatherings', it's illegal to leave one's home to go and watch fireworks, as it's not covered by any relevant exemptions.

Further though, "No person may participate in a gathering which—
(a) takes place in a public outdoor place and consists of more than two people, or
(b) takes place in any other outdoor place (including any outdoor part of a private dwelling)and consists of two or more people"
[Regulation 9(1), ibid]

Regulation 11(2) provides an exemption from the above where "all the people in the gathering—
(a) are members of the same household, or
(b) are members of two households which are linked households in relation to each other"
('Linked households' are different to 'linked childcare households'; they can only be formed where one of the household only has a single adult in it, so it won't apply to your family members).

So, once again, the law is being broken by the group gathering together in a garden.