ChatterBank2 mins ago
Probate Law
I am not happy with the way that my sister-in-law (SIL) has dealt with my late mother-in-laws (MIL) estate since her passing in November 2010.
My MIL did write a will many years ago. THis split her estate up evenly between all children as regards money & shares. The solicitor who dealt with this kept the origianl in-house but then a few years later returned it as they were closing that branch up. From this can I assume that no copy will have been kept in Central Records? (Can this be checked?) So the original and a copy were both kept in the house. She did write a codicil - quite a radical one - some time later but this was NOT A legal one as it was not completed correctly.
The upshot of this codicil meant that my SIL got the bulk of the estate especially the bank account cash. She also left an amount of shares to be sold and the money distributed to her surviving children. The value of the shares was not more than about £3,000 - £4,000.
As regards the cash, about 6 months prior to her death she was placed in a Nursing Home at the local council expense. However while there her accounts were locked as there was some talk of dementia bit only in the last 3 months.
So my question(s) is - is there any government body looking over the estates of the deceased to see if probate is applied for and. or a will executed? Can an outside party inform any central body as regards there concern as regards the execution of an estate / will?
You may think this is all sour grapes but all the remaining children are not happy with the situation but all appear reticent to do anything. There is even talk of bullying by my SIL to get MIL to sign the codicil!!
My MIL did write a will many years ago. THis split her estate up evenly between all children as regards money & shares. The solicitor who dealt with this kept the origianl in-house but then a few years later returned it as they were closing that branch up. From this can I assume that no copy will have been kept in Central Records? (Can this be checked?) So the original and a copy were both kept in the house. She did write a codicil - quite a radical one - some time later but this was NOT A legal one as it was not completed correctly.
The upshot of this codicil meant that my SIL got the bulk of the estate especially the bank account cash. She also left an amount of shares to be sold and the money distributed to her surviving children. The value of the shares was not more than about £3,000 - £4,000.
As regards the cash, about 6 months prior to her death she was placed in a Nursing Home at the local council expense. However while there her accounts were locked as there was some talk of dementia bit only in the last 3 months.
So my question(s) is - is there any government body looking over the estates of the deceased to see if probate is applied for and. or a will executed? Can an outside party inform any central body as regards there concern as regards the execution of an estate / will?
You may think this is all sour grapes but all the remaining children are not happy with the situation but all appear reticent to do anything. There is even talk of bullying by my SIL to get MIL to sign the codicil!!
Answers
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In order to have access to the funds (unless the estate was very small) the executor MUST obtain a grant of probate. Banks, etc, won't release the money until they're provided with a copy of the grant.
If probate has not yet been granted you can apply for a...
If probate has not yet been granted you can apply for a...
17:04 Fri 29th Apr 2011
contd ......
As a final point the sums involved would make a great deal of difference to some of the families, not so much to others. I am not 100% sure of the cash amount involved but figures bandied about have generally been £20,000 or more. And following on from that who would have frozen the account(s) in the home and then unfrozen them. Should they not have seen some kind of evidence of will or probate?
Sorry for the long narrative but any advice greatly appreciated
As a final point the sums involved would make a great deal of difference to some of the families, not so much to others. I am not 100% sure of the cash amount involved but figures bandied about have generally been £20,000 or more. And following on from that who would have frozen the account(s) in the home and then unfrozen them. Should they not have seen some kind of evidence of will or probate?
Sorry for the long narrative but any advice greatly appreciated
This is my point factor30
I believe that probate has NOT been registered. Isnt this a part of the executors duties? But as SIL is also sole executor (according to will), she seems to be running it exactly how she likes with no outside body checking her.
She has just disregarded what I consider the legal will (and all the rules entailed), and simply acted more on an illegal codicil but then refered to the will as regards the shares.
I believe that probate has NOT been registered. Isnt this a part of the executors duties? But as SIL is also sole executor (according to will), she seems to be running it exactly how she likes with no outside body checking her.
She has just disregarded what I consider the legal will (and all the rules entailed), and simply acted more on an illegal codicil but then refered to the will as regards the shares.
Banks, etc, are usually willing to pay out without probate if the sum involved is less than around £5K - so if no one account exceeded this it would be possible to wind the estate up without it. The SiL will have lied when signing their form though.
But no there is no government body that looks at estates in that way - certainly not proactively.
It's really up to you/your solicitor to decide what to do. Unless there's proof of fraud (and proof, not suspicion), the police won't get involved.
If the other beneficiaries got a proportion of the estate rather than specific items then they are entitled to demand estate accounts from the executor.
But no there is no government body that looks at estates in that way - certainly not proactively.
It's really up to you/your solicitor to decide what to do. Unless there's proof of fraud (and proof, not suspicion), the police won't get involved.
If the other beneficiaries got a proportion of the estate rather than specific items then they are entitled to demand estate accounts from the executor.
In order to have access to the funds (unless the estate was very small) the executor MUST obtain a grant of probate. Banks, etc, won't release the money until they're provided with a copy of the grant.
Once probate has been granted, all wills become public documents. Anyone can consult them.
If probate has not yet been granted you can apply for a 'standing search'. That remains in place for 6 months. If probate is granted during that time you will receive a copy of the grant (including a copy of the will). A standing search costs £6. (If probate isn't granted during the first 6 months, you can renew the search indefinitely, at a further cost of £6 for every 6 month period).
If probate has already been granted, you can apply for a general search (which also costs £6).
This page tells you everything you need to know about standing searches, with the information about general searches also to be found towards the foot of the page:
http://www.justice.go...standing-searches.htm
Chris
Once probate has been granted, all wills become public documents. Anyone can consult them.
If probate has not yet been granted you can apply for a 'standing search'. That remains in place for 6 months. If probate is granted during that time you will receive a copy of the grant (including a copy of the will). A standing search costs £6. (If probate isn't granted during the first 6 months, you can renew the search indefinitely, at a further cost of £6 for every 6 month period).
If probate has already been granted, you can apply for a general search (which also costs £6).
This page tells you everything you need to know about standing searches, with the information about general searches also to be found towards the foot of the page:
http://www.justice.go...standing-searches.htm
Chris
Thank you all for the guidance peeps. I guess I will have to get a 'Standing Search' and see what this reveals. My guess is that the will has NOT been registered. But then probate should not be granted to allow access to the cash!
Went onto the justice.gov site to get the relevant form but apparently its not there so a phone call will be needed after the holiday weekend.
Went onto the justice.gov site to get the relevant form but apparently its not there so a phone call will be needed after the holiday weekend.
yeah standing search is an easy one having done it.
you need your mother in laws full name,
and I think the date of death
you also need to select the office for probate where you think the will will be probated. I went down there in person to pay my five bob
for Manchester of course, it was Bridge st manchester
and in the post, out pops a will a few months later.
I am surprised that she can distribute any assets without probate
because when my mother died we had to pay for everything ourselves and then claim off the probated estate after grant
you need your mother in laws full name,
and I think the date of death
you also need to select the office for probate where you think the will will be probated. I went down there in person to pay my five bob
for Manchester of course, it was Bridge st manchester
and in the post, out pops a will a few months later.
I am surprised that she can distribute any assets without probate
because when my mother died we had to pay for everything ourselves and then claim off the probated estate after grant
Thanks PP
Due to an insurance claim for my wife I have a copy of the death cert. Apart from her will MIL was a well organised woman and in fact had arranged her own funeral , even down to the music. And it had been pre-paid. She had lived with SIL in the ex-council family home (prior to going in hospital and nursing home) so there were no outstanding utility bills.
And as for 'popping down' the local office MIL lived and died in London which will be a 150 mile round trip!!
Due to an insurance claim for my wife I have a copy of the death cert. Apart from her will MIL was a well organised woman and in fact had arranged her own funeral , even down to the music. And it had been pre-paid. She had lived with SIL in the ex-council family home (prior to going in hospital and nursing home) so there were no outstanding utility bills.
And as for 'popping down' the local office MIL lived and died in London which will be a 150 mile round trip!!
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