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Family Court - What Happens - Update!
Sorry, not sure how I add a link to show my last post!
The court date is looming and cafcass have now got involved. His ex is throwing alsorts of accusations his way - none of them nice, some pretty nasty and none of them true. Cafcass lady said the judge has to look at everything and yes, it could affect his chances. How is that fair? She can't prove what she says is true and can't disprove the accusations - so how does that work? I'm sure he could easily make things up about her but thinks what's the point?
Cafcass said they submit their report to the court but that a further assessment may need to be made.
Any comments, advice on all this and what's meant to happen next? Has anyone been through having lies thrown their way and did it affect anything?
She did actually send him a message a few weeks back asking him to drop the case!
The court date is looming and cafcass have now got involved. His ex is throwing alsorts of accusations his way - none of them nice, some pretty nasty and none of them true. Cafcass lady said the judge has to look at everything and yes, it could affect his chances. How is that fair? She can't prove what she says is true and can't disprove the accusations - so how does that work? I'm sure he could easily make things up about her but thinks what's the point?
Cafcass said they submit their report to the court but that a further assessment may need to be made.
Any comments, advice on all this and what's meant to happen next? Has anyone been through having lies thrown their way and did it affect anything?
She did actually send him a message a few weeks back asking him to drop the case!
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The Family court see cases like this every day of the week, they are very well aware of the problems Mums try to put in the way of Fathers wanting access to their children. They will not be fooled by the Ex's protests, they will look carefully at both sides and talk to your son and his ex both together and to each privately. Please believe me when I tell you that they will see through the Mum's lies and protests. As I just said this is an every day normality for them. They are used to it and will NOT be fooled.
As I said in my answers to your previous post the family court can make only one decision and that is to do 'Whatever is in the best interests of the child' no other decision is even possible!
In the huge majority of cases (and most certainly in your case) the 'best interests of the child' will include regular contact with the Father.
The ONLY way a father would be refused all access to his child would be if the father was a convicted child abuser!
As I said in my answers to your previous post the family court can make only one decision and that is to do 'Whatever is in the best interests of the child' no other decision is even possible!
In the huge majority of cases (and most certainly in your case) the 'best interests of the child' will include regular contact with the Father.
The ONLY way a father would be refused all access to his child would be if the father was a convicted child abuser!
Do Cafcass normally tell you what they're gonna put in their report? Other half got a phone call today to say she was going to recommend no contact in her report - because of the allegations his ex has made and because of things her parents have said. Apparently because he used to know some iffy people many moons ago (who he doesn't even associate with anymore), that's also going against him.
Is that fair? I'm assuming the judges lay quite a lot of importance on what Cafcass say?
Getting out of hand now!
Is that fair? I'm assuming the judges lay quite a lot of importance on what Cafcass say?
Getting out of hand now!
Sorry if I am being thick, but who said she was going to recommend no contact, is it the'other half' or cafcass ?
The judge does NOT rely on cafass ! He / She has to talk to both sides privately and together as well as look at the cafcass report.
As far as I know cafcass do NOT make their views known to the parties involved only the judge sees their report.
When is the actual case, your son needs someone with him to help him put his case.
A very good idea is to contact 'Family's need Fathers' they are highly skilled at helping people in the situation your son is in.
In some case's they can provide a helper to attend the hearing with your son at the very least they will provide help and advise. Here is their web site.
https:/
Please phone them for advise ! They are brilliant and totally free !
The judge does NOT rely on cafass ! He / She has to talk to both sides privately and together as well as look at the cafcass report.
As far as I know cafcass do NOT make their views known to the parties involved only the judge sees their report.
When is the actual case, your son needs someone with him to help him put his case.
A very good idea is to contact 'Family's need Fathers' they are highly skilled at helping people in the situation your son is in.
In some case's they can provide a helper to attend the hearing with your son at the very least they will provide help and advise. Here is their web site.
https:/
Please phone them for advise ! They are brilliant and totally free !
What you need ideally is a 'Mackenzie Friend' that is a person who is not a lawyer but is skilled at helping people to represent themselves in court. Family's need Father have a service to provide 'MacKenzie Friends' look on the web site. But do it ASAP as they need time to find someone to act for him and get all the facts straight.
It was the woman from Cafcass who phoned him and said that. She said she would be emailing a copy of the report to him (not received so far). I thought it was a bit strange too.
The hearing is on Wednesday. He's actually got someone by his side - they're based at the main court and offer support and advice and they said they'd be there on the day.
Cafcass woman wants to speak to him in person before it all starts. She's not actually met him before, the "interview" was done over the phone.
He's spoken to someone at FNF before and they helped start the ball rolling. Unfortunately with his shift patterns he's found it very difficult to get to any of their meetings.
The hearing is on Wednesday. He's actually got someone by his side - they're based at the main court and offer support and advice and they said they'd be there on the day.
Cafcass woman wants to speak to him in person before it all starts. She's not actually met him before, the "interview" was done over the phone.
He's spoken to someone at FNF before and they helped start the ball rolling. Unfortunately with his shift patterns he's found it very difficult to get to any of their meetings.
-- answer removed --
Seems cafcass only have one side of the story. When they talk to your son they will see his side and that a lot of what the ex is saying is untrue.
As I said before, fathers rights are VERY high priority now, the ONLY way he will be refused any access to the child is if they can show evidence that he would be a danger to the child, as if for example he had been convicted or accused of violence or abuse of a child.
Wait until he actually talks to the cafcass woman, I really can't see how they can make a judgement based on hearing only one side of the argument.
Please let us know how the hearing goes.
As I said before, fathers rights are VERY high priority now, the ONLY way he will be refused any access to the child is if they can show evidence that he would be a danger to the child, as if for example he had been convicted or accused of violence or abuse of a child.
Wait until he actually talks to the cafcass woman, I really can't see how they can make a judgement based on hearing only one side of the argument.
Please let us know how the hearing goes.
No, he HAS actually talked to the Cafcass woman and that's how he knew his ex has accused him of this that and the other and brought up many things from his dark and distant past. The Cafcass woman listened to what he had to say and he obviously denied the accusations. Despite all this, she phoned him back at the weekend to say she would be recommending no contact in her report to the court.
He's definitely not a danger to his daughter - he has 2 other children and there's no problems there either.
Hope you're right Eddie51!! Shall let you know after the fun begins on weds ...
He's definitely not a danger to his daughter - he has 2 other children and there's no problems there either.
Hope you're right Eddie51!! Shall let you know after the fun begins on weds ...
He will get visit rights I am absolutely certain of that.
In my family's case the father had a conviction for soliciting women for sex!
He still got visiting rights. At first he only had 'supervised access', my daughter had to take the child to a 'family center' and leave her there. Then the father came to the center and saw his daughter under supervision from the social workers who run the center. After a few weeks of that they decided it was OK to allow unsupervised access. The family center was very good like a large nursery with lots of toys and things to do. The workers there watch how the child and parent react to each other and how they get on. Only once they are happy the parent is no threat do they allow it to progress to unsupervised access.
This was over 2 years ago now, currently the father is allowed to keep the child overnight once a month and for a weekend occasionally. They sent someone to inspect his house to be sure it was safe for a small child before allowing overnight stays.
Anyway, I really do want to know how you get on at the hearing so please let us know, thanks.
In my family's case the father had a conviction for soliciting women for sex!
He still got visiting rights. At first he only had 'supervised access', my daughter had to take the child to a 'family center' and leave her there. Then the father came to the center and saw his daughter under supervision from the social workers who run the center. After a few weeks of that they decided it was OK to allow unsupervised access. The family center was very good like a large nursery with lots of toys and things to do. The workers there watch how the child and parent react to each other and how they get on. Only once they are happy the parent is no threat do they allow it to progress to unsupervised access.
This was over 2 years ago now, currently the father is allowed to keep the child overnight once a month and for a weekend occasionally. They sent someone to inspect his house to be sure it was safe for a small child before allowing overnight stays.
Anyway, I really do want to know how you get on at the hearing so please let us know, thanks.
Update - because his ex made even more allegations including sexual harassment after they split (even though she told Cafcass woman it was when they were together) and domestic violence (even though she'd said to Cafcass woman that no violence ever occurred), it's now gone further. A Section 7 report has been ordered. He has indirect contact for the next 12 weeks.
He said he felt everyone listened more to his ex because of what she was saying (oh and she's pregnant again so gets sympathy vote for being uncomfortable etc).
They did keep asking her if she wanted to take sexual harassment any further! Sure I don't need to say this but it's a pack of lies. If she takes it further, how could she prove anything and what happens then? He's terrified being accused of something he hasn't done.
She's even said he paraded their daughter in front of "all his women"! Hmm he had one relationship after they split and she didn't meet his daughter. And then he met me and we're still together years later. And I'm the only one who met his daughter!!
Does he ever get to have his say?!
He said he felt everyone listened more to his ex because of what she was saying (oh and she's pregnant again so gets sympathy vote for being uncomfortable etc).
They did keep asking her if she wanted to take sexual harassment any further! Sure I don't need to say this but it's a pack of lies. If she takes it further, how could she prove anything and what happens then? He's terrified being accused of something he hasn't done.
She's even said he paraded their daughter in front of "all his women"! Hmm he had one relationship after they split and she didn't meet his daughter. And then he met me and we're still together years later. And I'm the only one who met his daughter!!
Does he ever get to have his say?!
He will get have his say. I do not know what a section 7 report is, getting out of my league now. He has to get help from FNF they know far far more about this than me.
Great to see he has indirect contact, that is a good start, make sure he makes the most of it, they will be monitoring him and the child and will learn a lot about how they react to each other, which will also help to show that much of what the 'ex' is saying is untrue.
Great to see he has indirect contact, that is a good start, make sure he makes the most of it, they will be monitoring him and the child and will learn a lot about how they react to each other, which will also help to show that much of what the 'ex' is saying is untrue.
Hi Buffymad,
I have resurrected my account on here just for the purpose of responding to your question and to see if I can help.
If you see these two threads
http://
http://
You will see that I have recently been through this.
Note the 2013 date !! when this started.
I have just recently seen the judgment in my son's case and the good news is that both she and her mother have been branded as unreliable witnesses and found to have dishonestly and deliberately embellishing their account to prevent my son from seeing his child.
On my son's side he was remarked as by far the most reliable witness and the facts he was able to put forward were 'overwhelming'
The starting point was identical to yours where accusations were made that were completely untrue and disgusting.
I will continue with another post.
I have resurrected my account on here just for the purpose of responding to your question and to see if I can help.
If you see these two threads
http://
http://
You will see that I have recently been through this.
Note the 2013 date !! when this started.
I have just recently seen the judgment in my son's case and the good news is that both she and her mother have been branded as unreliable witnesses and found to have dishonestly and deliberately embellishing their account to prevent my son from seeing his child.
On my son's side he was remarked as by far the most reliable witness and the facts he was able to put forward were 'overwhelming'
The starting point was identical to yours where accusations were made that were completely untrue and disgusting.
I will continue with another post.
The process was the as follows.
As the accusations were made cafcas will recommend no contact purely because they have to protect the child.
In our case a background investigation was carried out on our son and he received a letter to say that there were no issues and that they had completed their investigation.
This was presented at the first court hearing which followed a cafcas interview prior to the hearing.
But........ she made further accusations to the court and they had no choice but to continue to refuse direct contact.
Just to add here, prior to this she suddenly refused all contact and this is about my sons application to have access.
In summary, the court process has taken almost three years now - my son has only been seeing his son for an hour a week for the past 3 months and since the judgement came out, this has been stepped up. soon it will be three hours.
There are more hearings to decide how to proceed and the mother has recently been ordered to undertake a psychological assessment and a social services investigation into the childs home environment.
She has a real threat of the child being removed ( look a the recent Minnock case).
Continued in the next post.
As the accusations were made cafcas will recommend no contact purely because they have to protect the child.
In our case a background investigation was carried out on our son and he received a letter to say that there were no issues and that they had completed their investigation.
This was presented at the first court hearing which followed a cafcas interview prior to the hearing.
But........ she made further accusations to the court and they had no choice but to continue to refuse direct contact.
Just to add here, prior to this she suddenly refused all contact and this is about my sons application to have access.
In summary, the court process has taken almost three years now - my son has only been seeing his son for an hour a week for the past 3 months and since the judgement came out, this has been stepped up. soon it will be three hours.
There are more hearings to decide how to proceed and the mother has recently been ordered to undertake a psychological assessment and a social services investigation into the childs home environment.
She has a real threat of the child being removed ( look a the recent Minnock case).
Continued in the next post.
One thing to understand is the truth WILL come out. Liars will NOT succeed.
The courts have seen this type of behaviour from women scorned multiple times and as clever as she thinks she is her lies will be exposed and the potential consequences are real.
There is so much more to our little evil piece of work's trickery. The stunts she pulled to prevent access have to be seen to be believed - if I can help you to prepare for any of that then I will.
She even tried to tell him he could see his son again if he dropped his case too.
Just get as much evidence as you can to support your son's version of events but trust me, the courts will spot the difference between a reliable witness and a liar - it just takes time.
I wish you all the luck in the world for a speedy resolution.
The courts have seen this type of behaviour from women scorned multiple times and as clever as she thinks she is her lies will be exposed and the potential consequences are real.
There is so much more to our little evil piece of work's trickery. The stunts she pulled to prevent access have to be seen to be believed - if I can help you to prepare for any of that then I will.
She even tried to tell him he could see his son again if he dropped his case too.
Just get as much evidence as you can to support your son's version of events but trust me, the courts will spot the difference between a reliable witness and a liar - it just takes time.
I wish you all the luck in the world for a speedy resolution.
Quoi, thank you for that and it's good to know liars do get caught out eventually. It's a shame that their word can be taken such that investigations have to take place! Glad it all came out right in the end for your son though. My boyfriend's ex has even said when he had their daughter on Xmas day once he brought her back after an hour or less. Hmm the trouble is I was there at the time (she doesn't know this) and was playing with their daughter and she was running around after my cat ... for about 3 hours!!
She's said things like he paraded their daughter in front of "all his women". He's had 2 relationships since they broke up and I'm one of them - and I'm the only one who's met her! Even if that were the case, how would she actually know he was doing that?
When did your son get to have his say about everything? I'm hoping my boyfriend gets to speak out as its so unfair if he doesn't. Should he "tell all" to the Cafcass person when they get in touch or save that for the next hearing?
In a way it's good that indirect contact has been ordered to start off with (writing letters) as he didn't even have that before!
Slightly worried as her family would back her up in any way possible - including making up more lies.
She's said things like he paraded their daughter in front of "all his women". He's had 2 relationships since they broke up and I'm one of them - and I'm the only one who's met her! Even if that were the case, how would she actually know he was doing that?
When did your son get to have his say about everything? I'm hoping my boyfriend gets to speak out as its so unfair if he doesn't. Should he "tell all" to the Cafcass person when they get in touch or save that for the next hearing?
In a way it's good that indirect contact has been ordered to start off with (writing letters) as he didn't even have that before!
Slightly worried as her family would back her up in any way possible - including making up more lies.
Hi Buffy
I think our cases sound very familiar and she was very controlling about access very early on. My grandson is coming up to 5 now so very young.
She would change arrangements at short notice especially on special times like xmas and birthdays etc.
I was told by her ( I attempted to mediate ) just after we put the court application in that we could say goodbye to seeing him for 2 years. This was because she had already spent time and knew roughly how long she could delay things in the court.
What happened in our case is that she was asked to provide a scott schedule which is a summary of her accusations. My son was then asked to give his side of each entry on the scott schedule. This takes time to get through court.
I have to tell you that on the first court date when her accusations were escalated (which we didnt know about till we got there) - at the end of the hearing a court official called my son back into court and advised him to get representation and not to try to represent himself. At the time we didnt know the reason for that but it was absolutely essential advise.
I would be very wary that her case involves domestic abuse because this is one of the ways our little minx tried to get legal aid. If she gets legal aid she will try to force you to abandon your case by running you out of money. In the event she didnt get legal aid (see my post about refusing to take CSA payments) because she was trying to reduce her income to claim legal aid - didnt work! She later complained that my son had stopped his CSA payments - jeez!
I am sorry but there's more..
eventually, every one of her scott schedule allegations was thrown out but she basically took a simple thing that happened and twisted it and escalated it into an abusive event. Then made up some to add to it.
I have written a large amount of the statements on behalf of my son and kept the solicitors costs to a minimum but it has still cost us in excess of 25k - She claims that her costs have exceeded 40k - I can beleive that at least.
I think our cases sound very familiar and she was very controlling about access very early on. My grandson is coming up to 5 now so very young.
She would change arrangements at short notice especially on special times like xmas and birthdays etc.
I was told by her ( I attempted to mediate ) just after we put the court application in that we could say goodbye to seeing him for 2 years. This was because she had already spent time and knew roughly how long she could delay things in the court.
What happened in our case is that she was asked to provide a scott schedule which is a summary of her accusations. My son was then asked to give his side of each entry on the scott schedule. This takes time to get through court.
I have to tell you that on the first court date when her accusations were escalated (which we didnt know about till we got there) - at the end of the hearing a court official called my son back into court and advised him to get representation and not to try to represent himself. At the time we didnt know the reason for that but it was absolutely essential advise.
I would be very wary that her case involves domestic abuse because this is one of the ways our little minx tried to get legal aid. If she gets legal aid she will try to force you to abandon your case by running you out of money. In the event she didnt get legal aid (see my post about refusing to take CSA payments) because she was trying to reduce her income to claim legal aid - didnt work! She later complained that my son had stopped his CSA payments - jeez!
I am sorry but there's more..
eventually, every one of her scott schedule allegations was thrown out but she basically took a simple thing that happened and twisted it and escalated it into an abusive event. Then made up some to add to it.
I have written a large amount of the statements on behalf of my son and kept the solicitors costs to a minimum but it has still cost us in excess of 25k - She claims that her costs have exceeded 40k - I can beleive that at least.
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