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Elderly Friend In Trouble.
14 Answers
My very elderly friend Susan has recently been widowed. She has no friends (and only one family member very far away), apart from me.
Her husband’s family want me to return her house keys to them. (I hold them for safety reasons, and she wants me to keep them - she holds a set of my keys).
I have agreed to return them to Susan if she wants me to (she doesn’t), but her late husband’s family insists that I hand them over. Their argument is that they don’t like me me letting myself in to ‘their’ house [Susan has the right to stay in the house till she dies, and then it reverts to her husband’s family].
I never do that. I ring the bell, wait, and then, let myself in. This is what Susan wants. She finds it really hard to get to the door.
They live more than an hour away. We are working on getting a key safe outside the front door.
I feel that they are being unreasonable. Or am I not seeing the whole picture?
Her husband’s family want me to return her house keys to them. (I hold them for safety reasons, and she wants me to keep them - she holds a set of my keys).
I have agreed to return them to Susan if she wants me to (she doesn’t), but her late husband’s family insists that I hand them over. Their argument is that they don’t like me me letting myself in to ‘their’ house [Susan has the right to stay in the house till she dies, and then it reverts to her husband’s family].
I never do that. I ring the bell, wait, and then, let myself in. This is what Susan wants. She finds it really hard to get to the door.
They live more than an hour away. We are working on getting a key safe outside the front door.
I feel that they are being unreasonable. Or am I not seeing the whole picture?
Answers
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Try to view the situation as if your friend was a tenant in the house and her in-laws were her landlords. (I appreciate that the legal situation is different to that but I still think that it provides a useful analogy). A tenant has every right to control who enters, or doesn't enter, their house. (Their landlord can insist upon entering it, to inspect the...
19:18 Wed 25th Oct 2017
We don't know all the details, but I can't see what difference it makes to them whether you let yourself in or not. It makes life easier for your friend, and she is happy, so carry on if you can.
I suppose if they insist, you might have to give the keys back but it seems to me they are being quite petty.
I suppose if they insist, you might have to give the keys back but it seems to me they are being quite petty.
Suggest to her family that they might want to sign up for this https:/
Try to view the situation as if your friend was a tenant in the house and her in-laws were her landlords. (I appreciate that the legal situation is different to that but I still think that it provides a useful analogy).
A tenant has every right to control who enters, or doesn't enter, their house. (Their landlord can insist upon entering it, to inspect the property, at 48 hours notice but that's not really relevant here). As such, a tenant is entitled to give a key to a friend or neighbour, so that they can gain access in an emergency (or simply to water the pot plants while the tenant is on holiday). The landlord has no right to restrict such an action.
So, even though your friend's in-laws might regard themselves as being akin to landlords (with your friend being a tenant who occupies the property rent-free), they still don't have the right to control entry to the house.
Therefore I don't think that you're being unreasonable by holding onto the keys. There's nothing to prevent her in-laws providing an external key box in addition to your present arrangement. Alternatively they could fit a phone entry system, so that your friend could unlock the door for visitors without the need to get to it herself.
A tenant has every right to control who enters, or doesn't enter, their house. (Their landlord can insist upon entering it, to inspect the property, at 48 hours notice but that's not really relevant here). As such, a tenant is entitled to give a key to a friend or neighbour, so that they can gain access in an emergency (or simply to water the pot plants while the tenant is on holiday). The landlord has no right to restrict such an action.
So, even though your friend's in-laws might regard themselves as being akin to landlords (with your friend being a tenant who occupies the property rent-free), they still don't have the right to control entry to the house.
Therefore I don't think that you're being unreasonable by holding onto the keys. There's nothing to prevent her in-laws providing an external key box in addition to your present arrangement. Alternatively they could fit a phone entry system, so that your friend could unlock the door for visitors without the need to get to it herself.
Perhaps the family members are seeking to protect their long "material" interest and they may see you as an intrusion/threat. If Susan is aware of the situation then maybe she could meet and talk to her family and if appropriate she can invite you to be there as well, so that they can see and be reassured that you are both happy with the arrangement?
Unless there is some sort of condition (legally) to her occupation of the house, Susan has completely free and exclusive rights to everything regarding it, including whom she gives keys for safekeeping. How well such an arrangement is going is for her and her alone to decide, and she can on her own initiative and without consulting others alter such an arrangement. The house is her home and unless she is under an obligation to answer to others regarding some aspect of her living there, she is in sole charge.
You are understandably feeling in the middle between Susan and her in-laws but your best gambit would be to tell the in-laws that you are meeting Susan's wishes and that they should discuss any issues they have with her.
The in-laws are clearly being a bit uppity and were I to guess at a reason then I would guess it (in simple terms) is for inheritance reasons. They may have thought of a worst case scenario whereby you help yourself to contents of the house (his possessions as well as hers). It might be prudent for you to ask Susan to provide you with a statement/affidavit to the effect that she wants you to have the keys, why and how you may use them.
You are understandably feeling in the middle between Susan and her in-laws but your best gambit would be to tell the in-laws that you are meeting Susan's wishes and that they should discuss any issues they have with her.
The in-laws are clearly being a bit uppity and were I to guess at a reason then I would guess it (in simple terms) is for inheritance reasons. They may have thought of a worst case scenario whereby you help yourself to contents of the house (his possessions as well as hers). It might be prudent for you to ask Susan to provide you with a statement/affidavit to the effect that she wants you to have the keys, why and how you may use them.
Thanks Chris (another scary avatar), but seriously good advice.
I’ll be printing out your answer (and suggesting they look into the phone entry system)
Cloverjo I scarily think it’s more than petty.
Jno the problem is that she only has the right to live there till she dies, and then it reverts back to her husband’s family.
237. Am working on getting all this stuff sorted for her. She is happy to pay for it herself.
Gosh Karl, good points, but more than I have thought of.
The relations are not ‘bad people’ and they don’t think of me as someone who is trying to somehow benefit from this situation, but feel that they want to totally control the situation to the detriment of my friend.
I’ll be printing out your answer (and suggesting they look into the phone entry system)
Cloverjo I scarily think it’s more than petty.
Jno the problem is that she only has the right to live there till she dies, and then it reverts back to her husband’s family.
237. Am working on getting all this stuff sorted for her. She is happy to pay for it herself.
Gosh Karl, good points, but more than I have thought of.
The relations are not ‘bad people’ and they don’t think of me as someone who is trying to somehow benefit from this situation, but feel that they want to totally control the situation to the detriment of my friend.
the law - this isnt the law threadis quite clear
your fren' in possession says who comes in and out.
and yes being a veteran of senseless and destructive family quarrels I am sure they think you will let yourself in and loot the house. - I hope good sense prevails ( likely really isnt it)
Your frenz views should be paramount but it looks as tho the family is dealing directly with you and not thro her.
your fren' in possession says who comes in and out.
and yes being a veteran of senseless and destructive family quarrels I am sure they think you will let yourself in and loot the house. - I hope good sense prevails ( likely really isnt it)
Your frenz views should be paramount but it looks as tho the family is dealing directly with you and not thro her.
Do you think I would be ‘out of order’ suggesting that Susan get the locks changed on her house? So that the ‘family’ had to ring to get in.
Also, the solicitor who is dealing with her new will (obviously since her husband has died) is the same solicitor who is sorting out the ‘proceeds’ to her husband’s family.
Opt for a different firm??
Also, the solicitor who is dealing with her new will (obviously since her husband has died) is the same solicitor who is sorting out the ‘proceeds’ to her husband’s family.
Opt for a different firm??
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