Tracing A Grave Owner

[Dusty Bin]

Without going into too much detail, my brother died in 2002 and was buried in the northeast of England. He was married and so his widow is his grave owner and has legal rights to his plot in the cemetery. At the time, our family gave her a substantial sum of money from which she assured us she would buy a headstone for his grave.

Some months later this had not happened, but when we challenged her she told us she had moved on from my brother, she had now found someone new and asked us not to contact her again.

She has since changed her mobile number and we do not know where she lives as she moved out of the rented house she shared with my brother a few weeks after he died. There is a chance she may no longer be alive, but an even greater possibility is that she has remarried. We certainly have not been able to trace her using her married name, i.e. the surname she took when she married my brother.

I would like to approach her again to gain her permission to erect a headstone on my brother's grave, which I know she will never do now.

How can I find her or even discover if she is still alive?

[bednobs]

i don't think so

[Baldric]

/// At the time, our family gave her a substantial sum of money from which she assured us she would buy a headstone for his grave///

Is it possible to report her for obtaining money by deception, and let someone else find her for you?

[mikey4444]

When my Mum died, I managed to retain ownership of her grave, rather that let her 2nd husband do it. He was a complete pillock who she should never have married.

Mum realised that in her final weeks and months, and asked me to make sure that he wasn't going to be buried on top of her when his time came....not an easy conversation to have, as you may imagine.

So I am now the owner of her grave and on my death it will pass to my brothers. The Council have assured me that that nobody can be interred there, with our permission. I have let it be known to my family that I would like to buried with Mum, or our Dad, who is a plot not so far away in the same cemetery.

The family is now estranged from this chap, although we know where he is living.

[rockyracoon]

You could use a tracing agency to find her. I used one, successfully, a few years ago, to find a long lost brother who had been adopted. The one I used looks like he's not in business anymore, but there are lots out there. It'll probably cost about £200. You should be able to give them enough details to work with just by what you know about her.
If she's moved on with her life, couldn't you just put the headstone up anyway? She'll never know.

[bednobs]

you pobably have to prove something or other before it can be erected

[EDDIE51]

My view is that finding her by use of a tracing agent will cost more than just putting your own headstone on the grave. As said she is very unlikely to know and even less likely to care.

[mikey4444]

Eddie...the difficulty as I see it, will be for Dusty Bin to place any stone, on a grave he doesn't own.

No self-respecting monumental mason will erect any stone, unless the ownership of the grave can be proved.

[Peter Pedant]

// Is it possible to report her for obtaining money by deception, and let someone else find her for you?//

The short answer to this is no - she didnt plan the deception when she accepted the money. So it would be breach of trust - a civil wrong - or breach of fiduciary duty is a goer but you have to find her. and as for getting the police interested in such a thing ......

I dont know why people come up with good ideas like this

To return to the question - you know where the grave is- so write to the office in charge of the cemetery - it will be somewhere in the council offices.

Then you have to persuade them to give you the information that they may well feel to be confidential - but you could say that you wish to take over the maintenance of the plot - and you dont want so much to get her address as erect a headstone without trouble....Offering to do the maintenance may get them to say - yeah just do it.

and see what they say.

I am sorry that it has turned out like this - and that you have to cope with a widow 'who has moved on' and sort of over and out. I regularly clean the grave plot of a fren' from uni who died within 5 y of graduating and whose widow moved on ( 45y ago) - you cant blame them - they have their own lives to lead.....

[bednobs]

your plan may not work peter, she has moved and i doubt it was her top priority to let the cemetery know her new address.

[ummmm]

Is it a council run cemetery? When my dad died we had to register the plot with the council. We booked a double plot and I'm the other name.

[Dusty Bin]

Thank you to all who have replied.

In response: -

Baldric - Peter Pedant has answered that better than I could!

rockyracoon - How do I go about finding a tracing agency and in particular one that charges only £200? We think costs could be over £1000

bednobs - you're spot on - we've asked this and only the grave owner can give permission for erection of a headstone on the grave

EDDIE51 - mikey4444 has answered your suggestion in line with our findings so far - a dead end.

Peter Pedant - we have already contacted the local cemetery office and they are insistent that only the grave owner can give permission. The only information they hold is my brother's widow's name, an address which is known to us and no longer valid and a contact telephone number - also known to us - which again is no longer valid. It seems that know less about her or her whereabouts than we did. It also seems that the grave owner has no obligation to keep the cemetery office informed of change of address, telephone numbers etc. bednobs recognised this also.

ummmm - yes, it is a council run cemetery, but I don't get your point - sorry!

I would appreciate any further assistance that anyone can give.

[ummmm]

Dusty, we had to pay for and register the plots with the council.

[ummmm]

So the plot is registered as my father being buried there and as it's a double plot I'm registered to be buried there.

[Mamyalynne]

Dusty, I largely agree with the others that you will be hard pressed to find her and get the permissions you need.

Maybe an alternative would be a bench in a place you have fond memories of with your Brother in his memory, local Councils may be open to that.

[naomi24]

I would contact the council and tell them that your brother’s wife can’t be traced and ask them if you would be allowed to erect a stone. I think you’re going to have to say goodbye to the money you gave her.

[Dusty Bin]

Mamyalynne - my dad is very upset that his grave is still missing a headstone. He's a fair age himself and wants to right this wrong before he goes himself, he says.

naomi24 - we know the money's gone. It's not about the money now. We want to be able to put a headstone on the grave. We have indeed contacted the council but they won't allow us to erect a stone while she is still registered as the grave owner. If we can show that she is either relinquishing ownership or due to her death is no longer the grave owner, then we can take over the ownership of the grave, but until then it feels like we've hit a wall as we just don't know if she's even alive still let alone where she may be.

[Mamyalynne]

I understand, I do hope you can resolve it Dusty - let us know.

[naomi24]

Dusty Bin, In that case you will have to continue to try to trace her. I can't see that you have an alternative. Sorry I can't offer a more helpful suggestion. Good luck.

[woofgang]

Bit of a long shot, but if you think she might be dead, you could google her name with words like death notice, obituary, funeral, burial etcetera. I have manged to confirm a couple of distant family deaths in this way

[woofgang]

Argh! “Managed” not manged