A Friend's Nightmare Situation

[dunnitall]

Rather complex question but long story short. Friends for 30 years next door-but-one neighbours our age. See them nearly every week for cuppa/chat and asked to family "do's" as we do them. He recently had a stroke and in hospital then home with carers, then had op for gallstones ... home again, then in hospital where he is now because he was unwell.

They have three children in their forties, it transpires at a meeting at the hospital yesterday my friend visiting hubby which she does everyday (doesn't drive) the children turned up and told the hospital bods, my friend had been abusing their father for over 4 yrs!!! (He's ex army, confident, always been the organiser but they always did things together) we cannot even believe any of this.

Apparently the children told hospital before this and Monday they sent the police to friends house to "warn" her about the abuse!!! At the meeting they said what they did and now the hospital believe the children and they won't let the hubby come home. They are going to find a home to put him in!! Apparently due to his intermittent memory loss they cannot rely on any answers he would give them.

Friend in bits, said she might not see him again as don't know where they would put him. The children have demanded the Will and his credit card.... she has refused.

My question is....can the hospital do this without ascertaing proof of the allegations? I have told her to seek a solicitors advice. I have to add a similar thing happened with the family a couple of months ago just after his stroke, they called ambulance to have him taken to hospital and took the back door keys to friends house. They wouldn't give them back to my friend so she had the locks changed.

Sorry for lengthy story but all facts as I've been told them are there, it seems incredulous to us I just had to ask. Thanks in advance for any answers.

[pixie374]

I guess they can. Rightly or wrongly they need to protect anyone vulnerable and whether it is true or not (who knows...), it does make sense to ensure his safety. If I were you, I would visit him myself just to see what he has to say and what he would like to happen now. Even with intermittent memory loss, you are likely to find out, if you speak to him on a few different occasions.

[dunnitall]

Thanks Pixie, unfortunately I am too ill to visit him and being disabled it would not be likely, if at home I would manage to get to their house. Sadly it's something I want to do, to speak to him but I can't.

[B00]

Why would the children say these things?

Do you believe there could be any truth in the allegations?

[calmck]

Could the “children” be trying to get information of the will and access to the bank account for any ulterior motive. Is the will with a solicitor. Who is executor. Who witnessed it. Are the “children” involved with helping with the care of the father. I think the wife should seek legal advice

[dunnitall]

B00 no we don't and neither does my daughter who has spoken to her, it just seems impossible though who knows what goes on. He wants to come home, he pleads with hospital to let him come home, he calls out for her at night, other patients tell her. What we can't understand is how the hospital can believe them without evidence.

They also claim, my friend who has chronic illness lies about it to everyone and isn't ill at all. Funny that when she had a stroke a few years back and has attended hospitals for that and her heart probs, now has a pacemaker.... So I have no idea why they would say all these things...but made us think that they have demanded their Will and his credit card....

[pixie374]

Fair enough, dunnitall. Is there anyone you trust to make a visit for you? Do you know whether any of the children have Power of Attorney? I can see it from your friend's point of view- but I can also see that if allegations have been made by different people, even unproven, the hospital need to act in what they consider his best interests x

[hereIam]

Would the three grown children say this if it wasn't true though ??? And why, if it is true, did they allow it to go on four four long years ??? What do you think of the claim ..

[pixie374]

Assuming he hasn't been Sectioned, they can't stop him going home, they can only try to make it difficult.

[dunnitall]

calmck that's what we are thinking. They had Will drawn up by solicitor and solicitor kept it. We discussed it sometime ago and friends hubby said it HAD to be with solicitor...I said no you can keep it at home. Since then I don't know if they did or not. No the children don't do much for them and not involved in taking care of him, just in telling her what she should do and not do regarding his care.

[pixie374]

Do you know if they have Power of Attorney?

[calmck]

I think she should contact the solicitor who drew up the will and ask his advice. Could they be wanting to force sale of house to use for care home. Why do they accuse their mother or are they step children.? Maybe the father needs an independent advocate appointed by adult services to speak for him

[dunnitall]

HereI am... we don't know what they would say it...haven't a clue, they hardly visit them...and yes IF it happened why let it go on? We see them every week unless they on holiday. If they don't visit them often how do they know anything has gone on.... We are reeling from this as it find it so wrong.

As far as I know he hasn't been sectioned, she would have definitely told us. I don't know about Power of Attorney, they wouldn't have thought of it themselves, someone would have had to tell them. But again, I think they would have discussed it with us as we always spoke about concerns and they often asked our advice.

[hc4361]

The hospital or police can apply for an emergency application to the Court of Protection if they really believe that the husband is being abused which would prevent him returning home, so he doesn't have to be sectioned under the Mental Health Act.

Your friend needs to see a specialist solicitor.

[pixie374]

Abuse often can go on for years, that doesn't really prove anything either way and quite possibly, it never will be known either way. If it can be shown that he will be safe going home, that would really help. I wouldn't get too caught up in trying to prove or disprove anything tbh, as that could take years. What is needed to allow him to go home? If that is what he wants... maybe carers in to keep an eye on him... I think you need to work out what is needed to move forwards now and try to ignore the rumours etc.

[dunnitall]

Thanks Pixie and I agree with that. When he was home before after his stroke he had carers in several times a day. Then as he got better he had physio in, then because friend had no one to sit with hubby at home, they mentioned is it Crossroads...people who volunteer to sit with patients at home.

I know friend had them in while she had hospital appointments and was pleased she felt safe for him to be with someone. One chap who stayed said he enjoyed it because her hubby was relating all things from the past in jobs he'd done etc.

Surely other people would have had some idea about abuse...I don't know...but being friends for all these years as I say we just can't get our heads round these accusations from children who didn't bother that much with them.

[woofgang]

From my experience before I retired, they may not believe the children but they are required to take the allegation seriously. My thoughts are.... has the husband been formally assessed as lacking in capacity to make his own decisions? If so who by and when?
I think the hospital feels itself (well hospitals can't feel but you know what I mean....) to be caught in the middle of this. Abuse allegations of vulnerable people are handled by Social Services and not by Health but health have certain protection responsibilities so if he is adjudged as vulnerable and lacking in capacity then they can't just wash their hands. Hence their decision to get him off the premises once he is fit to leave. As well as a solicitor, she should talk to Social Services about the allegations, as if there is no POA, then it is they who will be responsible for the man's ongoing care and for sorting out the allegations including identifying what the abuse consists of and what evidence there is that it happened. Accusers can't just say someone is abused, they have to say what the abuse was and what evidence there is. Your friend should make every effort to be seen as the reasonable one, to agree for instance that she will never be left alone with her husband for the time being; to co-operate with his temporaray placement in care, to STAY CALM yes that will be hard. She should not give any access to his finances or to amnything else. I am not sure what good having the will would be unless they intend to destroy it. Come to that, if he goes into care, I am assuming the couple have money, after the 6 week set aside he will need to contribute to his funding which will eat up any legacy they are expecting.

I should also say that a lovely bloke I knew many years ago who appeared devoted to his disabled wife turned out to have abused her (hit her) and also was a proven paedophile.....so you do never know.

[pixie374]

Yes, I know Crossroads, and I'm sure there will be quite a few options in his area. I understand it is hard to imagine, but I feel that is something very hard to find out for definite either way now. The priority has to be to get him to wherever he wants to be and safe and happy. Maybe ring the hospital and see what they would suggest for the future x

[dunnitall]

Thanks Woofgang....I will contact her soon, our phone has been off for three days prior to last night and today, the internet and fone have been intermittent. Grrr... just when you need everything to be in place.

[hc4361]

Abuse can go on for many years without anyone having a clue especially as the victim will make excuses for injuries that can't be hidden.

[woofgang]

hc, it might not be physical abuse.