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moving abroad
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Can anybody tell me where I stand ? I am married but seperated as my husband took off with someone else, he now lives with her and they have a child together. We also have a child together and my partner and i have been offered great jobs in malta - I am assuming I cannot accept without my husbands permission to take our son but I know for a fact he will not agree.
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falrep I think you have to take legal advice on this one, I doubt if this can be done without the father's agreement, but check it thoroughly
http://clc.live.poptech.coop/Templates/System/ PopupPage.asp?NodeID=91186
http://clc.live.poptech.coop/Templates/System/ PopupPage.asp?NodeID=91186
Contact a solicitor & find out where you stand and what you need to do if your husband won't give permission for the child to be taken abroad
I think you'll find it doesn't matter if you have custody, you can't simply take the child abroad without his father's permission
http://www.ips.gov.uk/passport/apply-child-rul es-parental-responsibility-rules.asp
http://clc.live.poptech.coop/Shared_ASP_Files/ UploadedFiles/D886A631-3B1E-4B0B-A785-DD3ECAFE D98F_FACTSHEETPR.pdf
I think you'll find it doesn't matter if you have custody, you can't simply take the child abroad without his father's permission
http://www.ips.gov.uk/passport/apply-child-rul es-parental-responsibility-rules.asp
http://clc.live.poptech.coop/Shared_ASP_Files/ UploadedFiles/D886A631-3B1E-4B0B-A785-DD3ECAFE D98F_FACTSHEETPR.pdf
It's highly unlikely you will be allowed to permanently remove your children from the UK, and quite rightly so. The children need their dad and if he wants them to stay, good.
I don't understand why you applied for a job in Malta in the first place. Put yourself in your ex's position. What if he had custody and he wanted to take the children to Malta to live for good? You'd say no as well. Why should rights be different for you, the mother, to that of the father? Would you want your child living abroad with him? No you would not
Don't do this to your son, never mind his dad.
Consult a solicitor for definite answers
I don't understand why you applied for a job in Malta in the first place. Put yourself in your ex's position. What if he had custody and he wanted to take the children to Malta to live for good? You'd say no as well. Why should rights be different for you, the mother, to that of the father? Would you want your child living abroad with him? No you would not
Don't do this to your son, never mind his dad.
Consult a solicitor for definite answers
Leaving aside the legalities for a moment, pink-kittens, there is a wider issue here.
When parents split up usually it is the mother who takes responsibility for the children. The father meantime often sets about making a �new life� with a new partner and perhaps more children. This seems to be what has happened here.
This is quite straightforward for the father. He has no particular ties and can largely do as he likes (and many of them do). The mother however is not so fortunate. She has the children to look after. This does not mean taking them to see a movie followed by a MacDonald�s once a fortnight. It means (among many other things) getting them up for school each day (often against their wishes), nursing them when they are sick, and trying to keep them on the straight and narrow.
In addition to this she is also restricted in her activities. No simple �new life� for her � she has to consider not only how the children will take to changes but also what the father�s reaction will be to whatever she wants to do. This can range from taking a job, taking up with a new partner or moving house. This is often said to be �because of what it will do to the kids�. In reality it is usually more about interrupting the father�s fortnightly trips to the cinema.
falrep seems to be in precisely this position. She is bringing up her son with no input � financial or otherwise � from his father, but is constrained by his requirements in anything substantial she might want to do.
Whatever the legalities are her �new life� (and indeed that of her son) are just as important as her husband�s - and somewhat more important than his fortnightly trips to the cinema.
To use your analogy of reversing the situation, do you think her husband would think twice if he was offered a new job abroad? And would there be anything preventing him from taking it?
When parents split up usually it is the mother who takes responsibility for the children. The father meantime often sets about making a �new life� with a new partner and perhaps more children. This seems to be what has happened here.
This is quite straightforward for the father. He has no particular ties and can largely do as he likes (and many of them do). The mother however is not so fortunate. She has the children to look after. This does not mean taking them to see a movie followed by a MacDonald�s once a fortnight. It means (among many other things) getting them up for school each day (often against their wishes), nursing them when they are sick, and trying to keep them on the straight and narrow.
In addition to this she is also restricted in her activities. No simple �new life� for her � she has to consider not only how the children will take to changes but also what the father�s reaction will be to whatever she wants to do. This can range from taking a job, taking up with a new partner or moving house. This is often said to be �because of what it will do to the kids�. In reality it is usually more about interrupting the father�s fortnightly trips to the cinema.
falrep seems to be in precisely this position. She is bringing up her son with no input � financial or otherwise � from his father, but is constrained by his requirements in anything substantial she might want to do.
Whatever the legalities are her �new life� (and indeed that of her son) are just as important as her husband�s - and somewhat more important than his fortnightly trips to the cinema.
To use your analogy of reversing the situation, do you think her husband would think twice if he was offered a new job abroad? And would there be anything preventing him from taking it?
New Judge, you may have a valid point in some areas and in some situations but this by no means counts for everyone. My partner has two kids with his ex and when they seperated it nearly killed him to have to leave his kids. He didn't have a choice though. He also only got to see them every second weekend, again not his choice. He now has, as you describe it " a new life" with me. This does not mean that he does not love his children. Should he just sit indoors waiting for his weekend to have them then stay in all weekend when he does have his kids so people don't slag him off for doing fun things with them?
He would have delighted in the chance to do all the mundane day to day things you mention that he didn't get to do for them. He would never consider moving anywhere away from them no matter what opportunity it offered him. How do you know falrep's ex doesn't feel this way too?
I agree with pink-kittens.
He would have delighted in the chance to do all the mundane day to day things you mention that he didn't get to do for them. He would never consider moving anywhere away from them no matter what opportunity it offered him. How do you know falrep's ex doesn't feel this way too?
I agree with pink-kittens.
I don�t know how he feels at all, beanmistress. And yes I am generalising quite considerably and all cases are different. Lastly, of course, we don't know all the details of this sorry tale.
However, the issue here is that the parents have decided to part for whatever reason. In doing so it is quite clear that they and the child will suffer to varying degrees. The parents had it within their control to prevent the breakup and did not do so. The breakup is done and sounds unlikely to be reversed.
So the situation in which falrep finds herself is that, in order to accommodate a fortnightly visit from the child�s father (which could cease should he become bored with it) she has to put on hold a significant event in her new life whilst the father is not so constrained in his.
All couples with children must realise that when they part company they will almost certainly have to make the best of what will be a very bad job. My point is that I see no reason why the mother should be so constrained in her activities whereas the father quite clearly is not.
It is not in the child's best interest for situations like this to prevail and the parents need to take a more objective approach to the problem instead of being only concerned with how it will effect them.
However, the issue here is that the parents have decided to part for whatever reason. In doing so it is quite clear that they and the child will suffer to varying degrees. The parents had it within their control to prevent the breakup and did not do so. The breakup is done and sounds unlikely to be reversed.
So the situation in which falrep finds herself is that, in order to accommodate a fortnightly visit from the child�s father (which could cease should he become bored with it) she has to put on hold a significant event in her new life whilst the father is not so constrained in his.
All couples with children must realise that when they part company they will almost certainly have to make the best of what will be a very bad job. My point is that I see no reason why the mother should be so constrained in her activities whereas the father quite clearly is not.
It is not in the child's best interest for situations like this to prevail and the parents need to take a more objective approach to the problem instead of being only concerned with how it will effect them.
I personally feel that falrep should do whatever she can to take up this offer and I don't think she should be too concerned about the father. These days, flights can be booked at a moment's notice and they are relatively cheap. What if father was living in Cornwall and mother was offered a job in Newcastle? Would we all be saying 'You mustn't move so far away?' The fact that it's a different country shouldn't be such an issue.
I have a couple of friends who, for different reasons, moved abroad for a few years when they had young children. The kids thrived and came back speaking another language fluently! Our roles as parents are to give our children the best possible start in life so that they can stand on their own feet when the time comes - not to hold them back for our own needs.
I also did some research several years ago about children from broken homes etc. and discovered that the one single time that the kids suffer the most pain (even more than the parents splitting up) is when the absent parent has another child with someone else! Did the father consider this when he had his latest child?
Good luck to you falrep - I really hope it works out.
I have a couple of friends who, for different reasons, moved abroad for a few years when they had young children. The kids thrived and came back speaking another language fluently! Our roles as parents are to give our children the best possible start in life so that they can stand on their own feet when the time comes - not to hold them back for our own needs.
I also did some research several years ago about children from broken homes etc. and discovered that the one single time that the kids suffer the most pain (even more than the parents splitting up) is when the absent parent has another child with someone else! Did the father consider this when he had his latest child?
Good luck to you falrep - I really hope it works out.
Thankyou to scooby dooby and new judge, its nice to see people actually understanding me point. I did not actually apply for a job in malta but my current company wish to promote me ! My intention was to fly back with my son once or twice a month and school holidays to allow my ex husband access still. I do not wish to deny my son his father but I do not see why he should so easily move on and i am (as pointed out) left to deal with all aspects of raising a child.
I could just as easily transfer with my company to the other end of the country which my ex would have no say in and i can tell you for a fact he would not bother himself to visit very much ! So actually moving to malta would be a better idea all round - or of course I could stay where I can struggling to give my son the life he deserves with no financial or practical support from my ex and have to ask my current partner to give up his dream job to stay with me or loose him completely - is this fairer ?
I could just as easily transfer with my company to the other end of the country which my ex would have no say in and i can tell you for a fact he would not bother himself to visit very much ! So actually moving to malta would be a better idea all round - or of course I could stay where I can struggling to give my son the life he deserves with no financial or practical support from my ex and have to ask my current partner to give up his dream job to stay with me or loose him completely - is this fairer ?
You need to have a court order for full custody - I think that will be all you need to move with your son to Malta. The father is obviously entitled to appeal against your move but the judge will consider all aspects and make their descision based on what is best for the child. You need to speak to a solicitor. Good luck.
When you become a parent it is expected that both give up many things, even when they split. Of course, it's just my opinion, but there is no way on earth I would move my children 10o's of miles away from a parent regardless of whether the plan may be to return home every 2 weeks and every school holiday - your job, time and money won't allow it and it becomes a pressure that cannot be coped with
I think the most forgotten part of any divorce/break up is the child.
Ever considered asking the child what he wants? Maybe he doesn't want to go, in which case I would urge you to listen and accept the fact he may want to stay in the UK near his father
I think the most forgotten part of any divorce/break up is the child.
Ever considered asking the child what he wants? Maybe he doesn't want to go, in which case I would urge you to listen and accept the fact he may want to stay in the UK near his father
That�s a very fair point, pink-kittens, and one which I had not made in my earlier posts.
However, the child�s needs, whilst being considered, cannot be paramount (despite what the latest contemporary thinking may be). Children should fall in line with their parents� lifestyle choices (provided they are not unreasonable), not the other way around. I�m sure falrep has spoken to her son about this (if he is old enough to understand) and explained that she considers it to be the best decision for them all in the long term.
I also cannot see why Malta seems to be the end of the Earth. It is almost certainly easier, quicker and cheaper to travel from there to England than it is to travel from Cornwall to Newcastle.
Life is full of decision making. It is naive to imagine that children can be unaffected by their parents� break up. There are far too many children in situations where they are hauled off to the cinema every other Saturday when, in truth, they�d rather be forming new bonds with friends and maybe step-siblings.
When parents make �new lives� it is very often necessary for children to do so too. They adapt far more easily than many adults give them credit for. And far more easily than many of their biological fathers do when confronted with the break up of their relationship.
However, the child�s needs, whilst being considered, cannot be paramount (despite what the latest contemporary thinking may be). Children should fall in line with their parents� lifestyle choices (provided they are not unreasonable), not the other way around. I�m sure falrep has spoken to her son about this (if he is old enough to understand) and explained that she considers it to be the best decision for them all in the long term.
I also cannot see why Malta seems to be the end of the Earth. It is almost certainly easier, quicker and cheaper to travel from there to England than it is to travel from Cornwall to Newcastle.
Life is full of decision making. It is naive to imagine that children can be unaffected by their parents� break up. There are far too many children in situations where they are hauled off to the cinema every other Saturday when, in truth, they�d rather be forming new bonds with friends and maybe step-siblings.
When parents make �new lives� it is very often necessary for children to do so too. They adapt far more easily than many adults give them credit for. And far more easily than many of their biological fathers do when confronted with the break up of their relationship.
I am kind of in the same situation, whilst my ex cares for our son deeply of which I have no doubt. I feel like I constantly bend over backwards to please him for our sons sake. Changing hours to suit him, rearranging my family around him then putting them on hold for an hour to wait for him to show up. I am married with 2 other children and my son has adapted really well (he was only 2) My ex only decided to act like a dad when he saw my husband teaching him how to kick a football, ride his bike,etc I do not see how being a biological parent gives anyone (myself included) the title of mum dad etc those have to be earnt by doing all the little things and enjoying them (most of the time!) because in your eyes you see how happy it makes your children. I am looking to move abroad, and whilst not taking my exes feelings lightly or my sons I don't see any reason as to why I shouldn't because I take care of my children I love my children and I believe making myself happy abroad could not be detrimental to this. In fact as a child all I wanted was my mum and dad to be happy, dont get me wrong I was loved but my happy memories are of me being happy not my mum and dad anyway when I left home my mum left too, seeing them now my mum is in africa happy as larry and my dad is in the uk happy too. I feel upset still that my mum and dad didn't make the move sooner and then as a child I could have witnessed and been part of a HAPPY loving family.
Newjudge: you are obviosly siding on the mother. As asual.
It is the most common to decide this way and usually the fathers feeling are never considered. Has any body asked wether the mother actually restricted the kids father to see them only on the weekends !!!! for all we know the fathers is desperate to see them more often. He has abviously started a new life of which involves another chil, therefore all' fun and games for himself' was not his main priority otherwise he would not have had more kids !
I very much oppose of the mother moving abroad.
When my parent divorced my mother granted access to us once a week which gradually increased to unlimited access. Although my father lived approx ten miles away. The fact that i could just cpeak to him about noprmal things now and again when need really helped grow up !!!
KIDS NEED THIER DAD !!!! ITA NOT A DEBATE !!!!!!
It is the most common to decide this way and usually the fathers feeling are never considered. Has any body asked wether the mother actually restricted the kids father to see them only on the weekends !!!! for all we know the fathers is desperate to see them more often. He has abviously started a new life of which involves another chil, therefore all' fun and games for himself' was not his main priority otherwise he would not have had more kids !
I very much oppose of the mother moving abroad.
When my parent divorced my mother granted access to us once a week which gradually increased to unlimited access. Although my father lived approx ten miles away. The fact that i could just cpeak to him about noprmal things now and again when need really helped grow up !!!
KIDS NEED THIER DAD !!!! ITA NOT A DEBATE !!!!!!
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