Restaurant Service Charges?

[Grandpappy]

Is it mean to have the service charge taken off the bill, if you've given the waiter a tenner?
I object to feeling obliged to allow this charge to be added to the bill irrespective of whether the service was normal or not!
I foolishly assumed that good food,good service and good prices were all part of visiting a restaurant and that it was those factors that ensured it's popularity and success?
If I objected to a service charge would I have to go into the kitchen and get our food from the chef. I expect good service as standard; exceptional service earns a tip!

[andy-hughes]

I agree, service in this country can be rewarded by a tip to the individual member of the waiting staff.

Some restaurants add this arbitrary charge on, and I do not believe it is appropriate, or indeed that you are obliged to pay it.

[naomi24]

It's not mean - it's just a choice. The only thing is if you tip waiting staff directly, staff working behind the scenes don't get to share the extras.

[237SJ]

I wouldn't tip twice - I would either give it to the server or pay the charge on the bill.

[andy-hughes]

naomi - // The only thing is if you tip waiting staff directly, staff working behind the scenes don't get to share the extras. //

That's true - but there is no guarantee that the backstage staff get a share anyway.

My granddaughter worked (not for long!) at a restaurant where the owner claimed all the tips given to staff and kept them himself.

My favourite system is run by my favourite Italian restaurant where all tips are placed by waiting staff in a pot, and a bell is rung which all the staff can hear, advising that a tip has come in. The tips are then shared at the end of the night equally among all the staff, so everyone gets a share regardless of their task.

[Old_Geezer]

Why give a separate tip when the bill includes a service charge ?

The cost of service is a fixed cost and should be covered in the price of individual items anyway. Also folk should do a good job not expect gifts to ensure it.

[naomi24]

andy-hughes, That sometimes happens, unfortunately.

[ummmm]

I don't think it should be added to the bill.

[Sqad]

The "communal pot" does seem the fairest way, but unfortunately it is "communal".......the good, the bad and the ugly.

i always leave a good tip, I always get good service and i never give a thought to whom my tip is given.

[ummmm]

Andy...that's how it worked when I worked in hospitality. I got £70 in tips personally because I knew the people. It all went into a jar and was shared out at the end of the night.

[237SJ]

If a tip is paid by credit card, the card company gets a percentage of it as well and some restaurants would charge an admin fee to process the tips through the payroll. I don't know if that still happens but it used to.

[andy-hughes]

It's all part of being British - feeling uncomfortable about not knowing the rules about tipping - because there aren't any - and wondering if your tip got to the person you intended it for anyway.

The Americans have a far better system - tipping is built into their culture, and everyone knows where they stand.

When I arrived late at the Jazz Festival in Montreal one year, I had a late dinner, and was so tired, I forgot to tip the waiter when I paid. He called me back and pointed out my omission, which I rectified with an apology, blaming my error on a combination of my nationality, and the lateness of the hour and my jetlag.

[237SJ]

The trouble with the tipping system is that it is no longer 10% that is added to the bill. If I tip in cash I tip 10% but 12 1/2% is the norm now. In the US it is getting ridiculous and 19% is common. They also have a system whereby if there are more than a certain amount of you at the table, the percentage rises.

[ummmm]

It still should be shared out. I know chefs earn more than waiting staff but you have to think about the pot washers and porters, they are just as important.

[237SJ]

Pizza Express gives a percentage of the tips to the cleaners.

[ummmm]

That's good 237.

[Rockrose]

If a restaurant has a service charge then that is automatically added to your bill and it will tell you this on the menu.
If you then decide to give the waiter a tenner you cannot then decide that you don’t want to pay the service charge. Unless of course something was wrong with the service and you had complained, but that would not be the case if you tipped the waiter!

[EdmundD]

Re American views on tipping.

We stayed in a hotel in Newport Rhode Island many years ago and arriving late we decided to eat in the hotel restaurant.

We were kept waiting at the entrance (sign said wait to be seated) then even though there were empty tables we were asked to sit at the bar until the table was ready. We had a drink each and eventually a waiter came up, led us to a table and disappeared.

Long wait for the menus, long wait to place our order, long wait for the food to arrive.

Food wasn't particularly great, we weren't too impressed by then, called for the bill and I paid it and we went up to our room.

It was about 11:00 p.m. by then and we were ready to turn in for the night. Then there was a knocking on the door. I asked who it was and the reply was that it was our waiter. Opened the door and he explained that we hadn't settled the bar bill. I apologised and signed for it. He then went into a rant that I hadn't left a tip in the restaurant, how was he supposed to work his way through college without tips etc etc. I said no tip because neither of us were pleased with the service or the food and closed the door.

We were both quite annoyed by this and my wife called the duty manager who after hearing what she had to say invited us down for a nightcap. He explained that regardless of the level of service, in the States the custom is that you tip, usually 15%. We explained that in Europe a tip is usually considered to be discretionary.

Next morning we came down for breakfast and saw that overnight signs had been put up saying "For the benefit of foreign visitors it is customary to tip staff 15% for services rendered".

[Old_Geezer]

The Americans have a much worse system IMO. Theoretically it's voluntary to tip, in practice it's obligatory because staff are underpaid, the items on the menu shown costed too low to look better value than they are as a result, and diners are expected to support this appalling system by making up the difference. If staff are paid fairly, and the total service/product priced fairly then and only then does one have a decent system. As it is now one gets the ludicrous situation where a waiter/waitress job gets more than those employed in a more responsible position, paid for by tips from the customers/tourists who have a smaller income than those serving. Madness.

[Old_Geezer]

"how was he supposed to work his way through college without tips"

It wouldn't be appreciated but, the answer was to find himself a job where the employer didn't rip him off by paying an inadequate salary and expecting alms from the customer.

[237SJ]

I remember watching a new item in the US and they featured a diner out in the sticks somewhere. The customers said that they were happy to pay 25% service and one guy said he would happily pay 33% if he had to because he knew the staff weren't paid much. When they asked the staff how much their wages were, I was shocked to hear that they earned $1 per hour. All that is happening is that the customers are subsidising the employers and letting them get away with paying apalling wages.