Should fat people be taxed?

[David Black]

There was a program on yesterday suggesting the government should tax fat people given what they cost the state.

Given we tax drinkers, smokers and motorists why not the fat folk?

[gessoo]

Well just let's tax everybody then who deviates from the norm (whatever the norm is). In fact lets get rid of people and have robots programmed to be identical or clone the 'perfect' people and get rid of all the others. We wouldn't need a NHS service at all then.

What a wonderful world that would be!

[David Black]

I think the point is that fat people are going to kill the NHS in terms of cost.

We need something to alter their behaviour before they destroy the health provision of the majority.

[yinyang]

The taxes you mentioned above haven't stopped people smoking, drinking or driving so why should a 'fat tax' be any more effective?

[David Black]

Taxes on tobacco and drink certainly offset some of the damage people cause to themselves.

[yinyang]

You are probably right. However, we need to work on long term solutions to the problems as well as just taking money off people. Smoking, drinking and obesity are self- inflected and we need to tackle why people do this and how to stop it.

I don't have any magic solutions to this (if I did i would be a billionaire :) ). Maybe we should tax the maufacturer's eg. fast food companies and cigarette brands rather than the consumers. To stick with the 'fat' issue if places like McDonalds weren't so readily available and cheap then maybe people would seek better alternatives. I realise this is only a small part to the solution and nobody forces people to eat this type of food.

How would the tax be levied - by weight or by diseases?

My mum has never been overweight , takes regular exercise and eats well yet suffers from high blood pressure and cholestorel(sp.?) for which she has to take daily tablet. These are conditions normally associated with being overweight so would she still be taxed?

[David Black]

The chap had a suggestion it should be done by Body Mass Index (BMI) and then add a % to your tax bill if you were obese ie over 30 BMI.

[gessoo]

I understand David Black. What I was trying to point out is that people, being people, will all do something that will cost the NHS. At what point would it be suggested someone becomes fat enough to tax!! I have no problem with NHS resources being used to educate people into healthy eating. A far better solution in the long run than penalising people.

[yinyang]

Then we should start taxing smokers and drinkers directly in the same way? Work out how many units of alcohol they consume a week or how many cigarettes they smoke a day and tax them accordingly. Can you imagine the outcry?

Plus, how would it be monitored? Surely that would involve an initial database plus regular tracking of people's weight to ensure that people were being taxed the correct amount. This would be a mammoth undertaking using a lot of state resources and given the mess the Govt. have made of tax credits it's unlikely they would make a better job of this.

[David Black]

Thats actually what we do.

[yinyang]

Not directly. When you get your wage slip in at the end of the month it does not have a section where it tells the tax that has been removed for drinking or smoking. It is done through increasing the prices of what they buy That is the point I was tring to make.

You have still not explained how the 'fat tax ' would be implemented.

[gessoo]

So instead of taxing the fat people we should perhaps heavily tax junk food to equate to the taxation on booze and fags? Wouldn't that make more sense.

[David Black]

Agreed taxing fat might be the answer but it gets complicated unlike tobacco and drink.

Is cheese which is clearly fatty as taxable as milk which is consumed in larger amounts?

[gessoo]

I can see the problem, but most people who are obese are on quite bad diets generally. Cheese is a problem, but essentially, in moderation, is a food which has nutritious worth. If the cost of 'junk food' i.e. crisps, coke, etc.etc. was very high I think it definitely help.

Education is what is really needed, from a very early age, on food and nutrition. Unfortunately, people are lazy about cooking these days. We have to turn that round somehow.

[yinyang]

This is what I was trying to say in my second post - sorry if it didn't come across clearly. Taxing individuals for being overweight wouldn't work . it would be logistical nightmare and probably cost more money to administer than it made. However I do agree that the junk food should be taxed to hopefully discourage people from eating so much of it.But again, as David says, we run into problems with what should be taxed and at what amount.

[pandabear]

welll let's just work this theory thru - taxing people when their habit costs the state -

fat people - what is their cost to the state ....... larger housong with bigger doors? Take up more room on a bus (don't remember special large seats on a bus / train)? Slower around the work place? Seems to be angled at health care cost, then?

So, following thru .... who costs the NHS money .... that we can charge for .....

Drinkers / Alcoholism .... liver damage / cirrhosis etc

Smoking ..... lung cancer etc

Too fat ........... ok

Aha .... what about too thin ..... anorexia bulima (well they should eat more, shouldnt they?

Average no of kids .... 2.4 ..... so anyone overthe norm ..... charge them (most likely already payomh benefit .... so take from social service hand-out budget and transfer to NHS)

Aha vanity (my nose) ---- cosmetic surgery

Aha - I don't like my sex ------ trans this and that ......

Aha ... how ling should a person be treated (kept alive) .... well. average men 79 women 82 so ------- stop treatment then?

Why pick on obesity?

Take a look at what you yourself have cost the NHS ..... and, what you will cost them in the future.....

[malaise]

Re above, David Black's point was that people who are obese cost more money to the NHS due to the increase of the number of medical conditions arising directly as a result of their additional weight. Unless there's some clinical reason for the obesity, it's self-caused, and as such the NHS / Government should be able to recoup some of the funds used disproportionately by obese members of our society. Smokers and drinkers are already taxed when they buy their goods, but there's no way to tax food becasue healthy people of an average weight also eat the same foods, but obviously in moderation.

It may also be useful to point out that anorexia and bulimia are mental health disorders, wehreas in the vast majority of cases, obesity is caused through greed alone. Thus it's hardly fair to tar them with the same brush.

So what to do about it? I don't really think it's fair to "tax" those who are obese, as much as I don't think it's fair that they are more of a drain on the health service than the average person. The same stands for drug abusers, and it makes my blood boil when some junkie is rushed into A&E after getting themselves in a fight, past my mother who has cancer and is in pain, waiting patiently.

I guess it's a problem that's always going to exist. Our society is too "politically correct" nowadays to enforce any type of tratment that would be deemed unfair onto people.

[yinyang]

you forgot pregnancy, pandabear. A self inflicted condition (well,not entirely self inflected ;) ).which costs the NHS months of care. The minute someone comes off contraception - which also costs the nhs - we should start taxing them.LOL

You're right panda. Most people use the NHS at some point in their lives.If we start making individuals pay for what they get then surely it's no longer free health care.

Health problems need to be tackled at a root level.As Gessoo said we need early education into health and eating habits and I still think the govt. should come down tougher on junk food manufaturer's.Especially places like McDonalds and their advertising pitched at children. It's scary that more American children can identify Ronald McDonald than they can their president or even Jesus.

[wilsonator]

I think that unless they have a medical condition where they cant stop putting on weight they should be taxed for sitting on their fat greedy asses and sponging off the tax payer.

I once knew of a guy who had given up work because of his knees and was given allowances etc from the state.

But he was over 24 stone and the weight was all self inflicted, maybe instead of taxing them they should be more vigilant with the disability allowance and only give it to those that are not self inflicted fat wasters.

[gessoo]

Wilsonator, do some research on why people are fat!!

Food addiction is a great problem for a great amount of overweight people. It's not an easy thing to beat. Many have lived all their lives in an environment of eating and of eating the wrong sort of food. They need to be helped not penalised. They are not greedy. They have a habit - not unlike smoking or drugs. Also it's most often the poorer people who eat the wrong food and then go on to suffer obesity and associated health problems. In it's own way it's an illness, and should be treated by the health service. Would taxing them more help the problem. I don't think so.