Omnipotence and Omniscient Paradox

[volcom]

If God is all powerful and all knowing, is her therfore able to create something that is too heavy for him to lift?

Because this paradox theoretically allows him to only be able to do one and not the other, does that mean that God cannot exist?

[123everton]

The second, third, fourth and fifth words of your question are the answer. There's nothing God can't do. That's why he's God.

[volcom]

But how can he lift something that he has made too heavy for him to lift?

[123everton]

Your have to try to understand a very simple concept nothing is impossible for God. He can do anything, one can't judge God with earthly reasoning, his knowledge is all knowing.

[Theland]

You also said yourself, a paradox, ie, not making sense.
Is God sensible?
With respect, this is a foolish proposition, and God is anything but foolish.

[ludwig]

I've just had a word with god and apparently it works like this..

Omnipotence means having the power to do anything THAT IT IS POSSIBLE TO DO. Therefore he cannot create a weight that is too heavy for him to lift because it would be impossible, and no-one, not even god, can do the impossible. However, he still remains omnipotent.

Also he pointed out that he is also 'all knowing', which means this explanation that he gave me is beyond question.

[jake-the-peg]

I'm afraid volcom you've just met up with the religous paradox.

Religious believers will endlessly study their magic books and make all sorts of "logical" deductions from them but then when they run out of road just turn around and say "You can't understand God"

You've just been told "shut up and don't ask difficult questions"

Draw your own conclusions

[WaldoMcFroog]

Theland made the most pertinant point;

"Is God sensible?"

[The Sherman]

if god is all knowing shouldn't he have known about the snake talking to eve? he would already know that was about to happen and then could stop it?

[jno]

why would he stop it, The Sherman? He'd given humans free will, and he let them get on with it. If the humans chose to do wrong, why blame God?

[WaldoMcFroog]

Because he designed and made them. He's the CEO of the company, and the buck stops with him. If as a result of some ******** decision on his part that was in his power to correct but which he chooses not to do, he has corporate responsibility. Pretending otherwise is weasily and unethical.

Man screws up so badly that God first has to flood the entire world and later on sacrifice his own son.

Being omniscient God must necessarily know in advance that man will mess up this badly. Despite this, he fails to take any preventative action to address it even though he is omnipotent and could do so. Thus these things can only have occured either because God was happy to allow them to occur or because God isn't actually Omnipotent and/or Omnipresent.

Ultimately, it comes back to the idea that God despite being a supernatural entity of unimaginable power, suffers from being lonely and needy to the extent that he has to create a bunch of insignificant and badly designed beings to fan his ego.

Or perhaps it's all made up by bronze agers. Who can tell which notion is more likely?

[naomi24]

Sherman, God isn't all knowing. He couldn't find Adam and Eve were when they we're hiding from him in the Garden of Eden. He had to call out to them to ask them where they were. Odd, eh? Such a simple thing too. Gen 3:8 & 9.

[The Sherman]

so if zeus isnt all knowing then i feel mighty inclined to question his plan, and if he isnt all knowing then who the f***ing hell does he think hes being judge jury and executioner in the afterlife!? So now we know he doesn't know everything he can't even look after his own stock (lucipher) and the fact is there are so many plot holes and loop holes that all add up to the most ridiculous notion i've ever heard. My new theory is that religious people believe to actually annoy level headed people who see this for planet for what it is. I think they just like make believe and fairies and angels and demons and other such chidlish things that sound like they should be in a lord of the rings novel.

[naomi24]

Don't know whether Zeus was supposed to be all-knowing, but personally I believe he was a similar sort of being to the biblical God. Nothing magical or supernatural about it.

[4GS]

If He made something that was too heavy for Him to lift (and why would he, where would He put it)? He could always get Jesus, St Paul, St Andrew,St Mark, St John and all the other saints and Angels and everyone in heaven to help lift it.
Simple

Except for that last Pope, he was far to ill to help

[123everton]

You can only annoy yourself sheraman, I'm happy to belive in God and I respect other people who believe in other Gods or no God.
People make the hell on Earth because they have free will.
The worst tyrants of our age were atheists Mao, Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot even saddam Hussein was a secularist.
The only thing an atheist knows is what they don't know they don't know how the universe began so they theorise that's fine it's an interesting notion. I believe that I'm here because somebody loves me.
The funny thing is years ago (in the old Clayton Square) a black man used to walk around with a sandwich board saying "the end of the world is nigh" people ignored him "religious nutter" a scientist says the end of the world is nigh, and we all have to pay monstrous taxes and dash out to our recycling bins doing pennance (carbon offsetting) if we go on holiday.
Scientists are the new high priests of atheism, counselling is only secular confession.
I'm just as level headed as you and equally assured in my beliefs. C'est la vie.

[The Sherman]

if you actually want to talk about tyrants then god has wiped out more people than any human ever could.

[chakka35]

We've been here before when I pointed out that it is imposible for any being to be both omniscient and omnipotent.

If he is omniscient then he knows everything that he is going to do and think for ever more.

Which means that he can never change his mind. Ergo, he is not omnipotent. (The reverse argument works just as well.)

On that occasion I seem to remember that the ever-evasive Theland dismissed this as "schoolyard reasoning" or somesuch. And that God doesn't obey our earthly rules of logic (as, you will note, an earthly lunatic doesn't either).

But then religion is the antithesis of reason , so why should we expect anything else?

[Octavius]

As 123everton said, God is able to do anything that is logically possible for God to do. To try to understand the power of God is beyond human comprehension.

Waldo, yes He designed humans, He designed them with the free will to do good or bad, or be an atheist, which is why presumably you recognise Him and blame Him for this fault?

Naomi, in context one could propose that A&E were �hidden� in the sense that their nakedness was not revealed. It was not themselves they were hiding, but their private parts they were hiding, probably with leaves from the trees.

[jno]

I must say, Octavius - with regard to privat parts - I have sometimes wondered, if God made Adam in his image, in whose image did he make Eve? Not to mention the old question of whether any of them had navels.

[The Sherman]

how is it logically impossible for a human to understand that he can do whatever he wants?

he can do whatever he wants-wow thats really hard to comprehend


religion is for weak pathetic people that can't accpet their own mortality