Will Not Witnessed

[silliemillie]

I'm a bit worried about an elderly aunt of mine.
We have been trying to get her to do a will which she was reluctant to do as she only has one daughter who she just assumed would just get everything.

Well she has finally done one but now we find out out it has not been signed by any witnesses.

As we know it can't be witnessed by family but she has no friends ( her and her daughter live together and don't get out much) so what can she do?

Her only contacts / visitors are family members. Would it really matter if it's not signed? I'm guessing it does.

[Neveracrossword]

Beneficiaries can't be witnesses, but other family members can.

[bednobs]

1) your aunt is probably right - her daughter would in the normal course of things get everything anyway if she died intestate (except, what if the daughter died first?)
2) family members can be witnesses
3) an unwitnessed will is invalid

[Jackdaw33]

As Never says, if everything is left to the daughter there is nothing to prevent other family members from witnessing. Strictly speaking they should witness the actual signing of the will by the testator/rix.

[ubasses]

Only any beneficiaries and their spouses are unable to Witness the Will.

[silliemillie]

Ok thanks everyone, she told me that the firm who sorted it for her said no family members could witness so looks like she got that bit wrong.

I will do it then, no problem, will make me feel a lot better.

[Peter Pedant]

// Strictly speaking they should witness the actual signing of the will by the testator/rix.//

it is absolutely essential to be valid that the two witnesses are in the room and looking at the testatriz as she signs the will so that if there is a dispute they can attest (!) that they saw her sign

the witnesses then sign

recently - a little nursey ran after a medic and said you have forgotten to sign this ! in a hospital corridor - god knows why the family felt the medical and nursing staff should sign wills.
Attestation case
will held not to be valid

I mean you know the rules ....
you have to follow them

I am very hesitant to say ' o leave it the daughter will inherit ....'

[Khandro]

//she has finally done one but now we find out out it has not been signed by any witnesses.//
Then it is worthless, as anyone could have produced it and forged the signature. Witnesses are simply witnessing that they were present when the will was signed and they must provide their bona fides.
For simplicity, I think the same document could be re-signed again with witnesses.

[Buenchico]

I used to run a will-writing company, so here's my input:

An unwitnessed will is simply a totally meaningless piece of paper. The will MUST be signed AND witnessed. Further, it's vital that the witnesses actually SEE the testator sign. (They don't need to see the content of the will. Indeed, they don't even know that the document is a will but they MUST be present when it's signed. They CAN'T add their signatures later).

Beneficiaries under a will MUST NOT witness it. (If they do so the will remains valid except for the parts which leave something to them). Family member who AREN'T beneficiaries CAN be witnesses.

Witnesses DON'T need to be known to the testator. My own will was witnessed, by a couple of people I happened to be working with that day, on a Tesco car park! Your aunt could (for example) get a neighbour and the postman to witness her signature.

If your aunt dies without leaving a valid will, the laws relating to intestacy will apply. That probably means that her daughter will get everything
https://www.gov.uk/inherits-someone-dies-without-will
but I'd still advise that a will should be written. (I told my own father that if, after his death, I found that he'd left everything to the cat's home I wouldn't be bothered. However if he died without leaving a will, even though I would get all of his estate under the laws of intestacy anyway, I'd be bloody annoyed because I'd have far more hassle to deal with!)

Your aunt's will doesn't need to be complex. The following would suffice:

"This is the last Will and Trestament of me, Agnes Aunt, of 42 Acacia Crescent, Sometown, in the County of Hereshire.

I appoint Norma Niece of 42 Acacia Crescent, Sometown, in the County of Hereshire and Another Relative of 23a The Grove, Othertown, in the County of Thereshire as executors of my estate.

I hereby revoke all former wills and testaments.

I leave my estate, in its entirety and wheresoever situate, to my daughter Norma Niece of 42 Acacia Crescent, Sometown, in the County of Hereshire.

In witness whereof I have here unto set my hand this twenty-third day of November two thousand and sixteen.
[Aunt's signature]

Signed by the above named testatrix Agnes Aunt as and for her last Will and Testament in the presence of us both present at the same time together who then at her request in her presence and in the presence of each other hereunto subscribed our names as witnesses
[Signatures of witnesses, with their names and addresses printed underneath]"

[Old_Geezer]

Do they test the age of the ink to ensure the witness date genuinely corresponds to the age of the ink for the person signing the will ?

Does anyone sign to say they witnessed the witnesses had witnessed the signing ?

[Gizmonster]

I was wondering the same OG - who's to know if the signatures are added later??
I'm not condoning this fraudulent action, as it's obviously illegal, but do they actually check the signatures, etc, when the will is presented??

[bhg481]

No, they don't but if the will were challenged and the witnesses sought out they would have to swear under oath that they witnessed the will being signed.

[Khandro]

Chris; // My own will was witnessed, by a couple of people I happened to be working with that day, on a Tesco car park!//

But they must have given their full names and addresses.

[bhg481]

See the last sentence of Buenchico's post, Khandro.

[Khandro]

Yes, thanks. Obvious.

[Barmaid]

Because I am a picky type I thought I would just make a few observations. The law relating to the execution of wills is found in s9 Wills Act 1837. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Will4and1Vict/7/26/section/9

It's quite an interesting read.

Silliemillie could go to see her aunt with a friend. The aunt could then acknowledge her signature in the presence of SM and said friend. SM and friend could then sign the Will (in the presence of Aunty). Will is then valid.

It is NOT necessary for witnesses to add their names and addresses. Only a signature is required. Names and addresses are just useful in case there is a challenge later.

I do not know of any cases where the age of ink has been tested. Normally the Court would rely on a "presumption of due execution". Ie, if it looks like it has been properly executed, there is a presumption that it was. I have no doubt that some Wills have slipped through the net that looked OK but were technically invalid. There are quite a few cases where the execution has been challenged and the witnesses could not be traced - the presumption will prevail though for policy reasons unless strong evidence is adduced to rebut it. See Sherrington v Sherrington for a useful exposition of this.

[Khandro]

Barmaid; //It is NOT necessary for witnesses to add their names and addresses.//

Not sure how they could sign it without their name :0)
and every witnessed signature I've ever seen has had the address added too.

[Barmaid]

I meant additional printing of the name. I do agree but the lack of printed name and address does not invalidate the will. Strangely a date is not actually required either. But it's a massive headache when one is not included.

[Peter Pedant]

o give him hell Barmaid
Sherrington v Sherrington - it will be my evg's reading
and kind regards and many thx Bam Bam