A Dit Name ?

[derekpara]

I discovered, shortly after his death, that my uncle had worked for a government contractor for many years under the name of Jack Cox and yet he was known to all the family as Jack Bradsell - the name he gave to my aunt Lizzie when they married in the late 1920s.

This remained a mystery and no-one wanted to ask Lizzie about it. I have since tried to solve the mystery without success; no marriage certificate; Lizzie's death certificate records 'Bradsell', and there are no surviving relatives apart from me. The company's records no longer exist.

After much delving I've come across ' Dit' names which seem to be similar to aliases but less sinister, and are quite common in Quebec and France. Has anyone come across the use of Dit names in the UK , and could this be a possible solution to this mystery ?

By the way, I can find no trace of French descent anywhere in the family.

Thanks.

D

[woofgang]

Not the same but similar, My father worked in London for the Water Board for most of his working life. At work he was known as Danny and then his real surname and that was what was on his paypackets and his work paperwork...this would have been right after his demob in around 1941 right up until he left that work after an accident around 1970. The explanation was very simple indeed. When he had turned up to start work, it had been with a group of men and the foreman had to take down their names and details. He was in a hurry and had only bothered to take down surnames and NI numbers and had made up the christian names. I don't think anybody particularly checked or bothered then so long as there was a valid NI number and no problem with tax or insurance payments. Wages were paid in cash so there was no need for a link to a bank account and so on. Your issue could be similar to this?

[Flonska]

Not sure if this helps but the BMD Register for Edmonton shows an entry for a John Bradsell who married an Elizabeth East in 1928. Maybe this is your Uncle "Jack":-

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl?start=1928&end=1928&sq=4&;eq=4&type=Marriages&;vol=3a&pgno=1446&db=bmd_1518485005&jsexec=1&mono=0&v=MTUxOTI5NzE3Njo1ZjczMzlkYjg0MDJiZmMzOGU3Mzk5MmQ0ZTRlNGViOWE5MGNiMzFi&searchdef=countyid%3Dall%26db%3Dbmd_1518485005%26surname%3Dbradsell%26eq%3D1%26districtid%3Dall%26sq%3D4%26type%3DAll%2520Types%26given%3Djohn&action=Find

[derekpara]

Thank you both.

Flonska, you are spot on. Well done ! That's another link in the chain. What would be really useful would be a copy of their marriage certificate, but I have no leads apart from what you have so kindly found. Thanks again.

D

[twix123]

Derek,

You can order a copy of the Marriage Certificate from the General Register Office, as per the following link:

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

Details of the event : Registration 4th Quarter 1928, Volume 3a, Page 1446

The 1911 Census shows him as an 8 year old schoolboy, living with his parents and sister at 197 Hampstead Road, London NW.

I don't know where you've looked, but 'Dit' could possibly be short for 'Ditto'

As an aside, it would have been interesting to follow up if he had an official National Insurance Number, under either name, but as his death is registered in 1966 he would not have been in receipt of a State Pension enabling a check on which name payments had been made.

[jno]

Dit is just French for "said" so it means much the same as aka, "also known as".

[jno]

(And Quebec is French speaking.)

[woofgang]

as I understand from what derekpara has said, "dit" is the french for "called" so much the same as "aka" in the UK. I have come across it in medical records, where you would find a space for Aka (also known as) when recording name....so the person would give you their name as "Jane Brown" and you would ask if anyone calls them anything else and they would say well my married name is xxxx but I don't use it...or they might have a name in their own language but have adopted an "English" version. Occasionally there would be sad cases and very confidential cases where a woman had changed her name and that of her child to hide from an abusive husband....sometimes people just change their names for the hell of it.

[Calibax]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dit_name

[woofgang]

snap jno!

[jno]

A John Bradsell was born in Islington in the fourth quarter of 1903, might that have been him?

[jno]

Forgot to add, his mother's name was Hollington.

[hc4361]

With the French and Canadian 'dit' names the 'dit' formed part of the name, such as John Brown dit Smith

[Flonska]

Derek . . . although you originally said there are not any other surviving relatives, I presume that you are aware a child's birth being registered at Edmonton Registry for a John F Bradsell in Mar 1929 to parents John & Elizabeth Bradsell, nee East?

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/districts.pl?r=159404076:4531&d=bmd_1518485005

[derekpara]

You really are a great bunch. Thanks so very much. I've just arrived home 11pm and am knackered so will respond properly tomorrow so please keep looking at this thread.

But briefly, jno. John Bradsell (jr) was my cousin and he died in Harare about 1986. Well done indeed.

Twix. I've had a quick attempt at your link but it's not easy - or I'm just too tired. so will try again tomorrow. Many thanks.

Night night all.

D

[derekpara]

Sorry , for Twix read Flonska !

And Jno that 1903 was my Uncle Jack Bradsell aka Cox ! Great !

Now I really must go, it's well past cocoa time !

D

[jno]

You can order birth, marriage and death certificates via twix's link, and they should contain some useful information about exact dates and places, parents' names etc. Death Certs can sometimes get details wrong if they come from people who didn't know the deceased well or have forgotten things.

Marriage Certs cost about £10 and are mailed to you in a week or so but they're trialling emailing birth and death Certs as PDFs, and these may be quicker and cheaper.

[jno]

But none of this answers your real question, about the Cox business. If you could find out just when he began using the name, and where (was it only at work?), it might give you some clue; but that's easier said than done.

[derekpara]

jno. Uncle John (Jack) Bradsell (b 1903) worked for Mowlem, the large building contractor situated on the north side of Lambeth bridge, where the MI5 building now stands. I popped in to see him one day in 1963 and no-one had heard of Jack Bradsell. When I told them he was the foreman carpenter, five feet tall and with a hunched back the immediately replied ' No, that's John Cox and he's worked here since before the war !' He was out on site at the time so I couldn't mention this to him and decided to keep quiet about it for several reasons. Wages were paid in cash in those days but he must have been recorded in official records of some sort. I wrote to Mowlems a few years ago but they had disposed of, or lost, staff records of that era.

I have postcards from some of his work colleagues addressed to Mr & Mrs Cox at their home address in Wood Green.

A baffling mystery.

Thanks again.

D

[woofgang]

may be as simple as my Dad's situation then.....a clerical mix up that never got corrected.

[derekpara]

That is a possibility, Woofy, but I was hoping to find something along the line of skeletons and cupboards !

D