Ann Mann/Halliwell born Blackburn 1865

[by jove!]

I am hitting a brick wall with the elusive ANN MANN!

She married WILLIAM HALLIWELL on 20 July 1893 at St. Peters Parish Church in Chorley. I have a copy of the marriage cert which shows her as a spinster, a weaver, living at 88 Harpers Lane, Chorley at the time of marriage. Her father, a spinner, was ROBERT FISHWICK (deceased). I haven't been able to find any trace of her in birth, death or census records using combinations of names.

William and Ann had 3 children William Edward (My grandfather)1894, Fanny 1896 both born in Chorley and Louisa Hannah 1905 born in Blackburn.

William died on 31.3.1930 and was interred at St. James Church, Blackamoor, Lower Darwen. The family originate and have lived in the Chorley/Blackburn areas.

Please can anyone help or point me in the right direction?
Thank you :0)

[CheekyChops]

They are on the 1901 census, mistranscribed as Hollowell:

Name: William E Hollowell
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1895
Relation: Son
Father's name: William
Mother's name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Chorley, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Chorley
Ecclesiastical parish: St Lawrence
Town: Chorley
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View image

Registration district: Chorley
Sub-registration district: Chorley
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 36
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Hollowell 36
Fanny Hollowell 4
William Hollowell 35
William E Hollowell 6

[CheekyChops]

Forot to add, the 1901 census says that Ann was born c1861 in Bolton.

[by jove!]

Thank you very much 'Cheeky Chops', much appreciated! I am from Halliwell stock so know the problems with misspellings but Hollowell was not one I've come across before; I tried almost all variations but not that particular one! For future reference how did you manage to throw up that information with the misspelling?
Thanks again for your help, I'm on my way again now! :o)

[dot.hawkes]

i will look if 66 is still there, i will be driving along Harpers Lane at about 6.30 on saturday, if she was a weaver she may well have worked at home as some of the houses have weaving cellars in that part of chorley, but there were huge weaving sheds about 500 yards up the hill in the Mill that is now the Botany bay shopping complex, next to the canal bank. The big spinning mill was further over towards where morrisons is now and the chimney is still there.

[dot.hawkes]

sorry, 88, i think it is half way up on the left opposite St Peters church

[CheekyChops]

I found them by searching (using Ancestry) for William born c1894 +/- 2 years in Lancashire with father William, Chorley as a keyword. I didn't give a surname.

I have had a look for Ann Mann / Fishwick on the other censuses but can't see a likely candidate.

[by jove!]

Thanks 'Cheeky Chops'; it didn't occur to me to search without any surname at all, good thinking there!

It seems that there is something of a problem with ANN MANN. Have done a fair bit of checking and found that the family living at 88 Harpers Lane Chorley on the 1891 census were called Morrison. I've checked right back from 1841 through to 1901 and the family ties up including an Ann born 1865 in Bolton. I am coming to the conclusion, having cross checked everything, that Ann 'Mann' was possibly the offspring of a female Mann and Robert Fishwick. Maybe neither could keep the child so she was adopted by Isaac and Ann Morrison. There is a birth record for Ann Mann, 1965, Bolton, but there is no record for an Ann Morrison at that time. She appears on the census records for 71, 81 and 91 as Ann Morrison, (possibly by then, 1871, having changed from a Mann to a Morrison), along with her 'mum', but by 1901 she's gone. All of which adds up as she was married to william Halliwell in 1893. He was a caretaker at St.Peters Church.
Have sent for the birth cert so shall see!! Very exciting!

Dot Hawkes, thank you for being so helpful and offering to have a look for number 88 for me. The extra bit of history about the mills and the houses was really interesting too. I have never been to the Chorley area although living only 30 miles away, at one time I worked in Preston just a stones throw away. Perhaps a trip might be called for this Easter holiday!

Thank you both for your help; enjoy your weekends! :o)

[dot.hawkes]

St Peter's Church is in harpers Lane and probably a few yards from number 88, if you drive into Chorley from preston through Whittle le Woods, as you go down into Chorley past the hospital, you come to 2 roundabouts with B&Q on your left and Carpetworld over the second roundabout, take the left turn off the second roundabout and you go over a bridge immediately and that is harper's lane, St peter's church is half way up on the right, a graveyard survey of monumental inscriptions was done in 1991 (I know cos i worked on it myself) and there is a copy in Chorley Library.

[dot.hawkes]

Hi by jove
I went up harpers lane today and took this pic on my mobile of the house that is number 88 now, i think these houses were built around the 1880s or 1890s:
http://i9.tinypic.com/40q3q89.jpg
Number 88 is the one with the white door behind the parked car. St Peters Church is about 50 yeard down the hill to the right of this row of terraced houses on the same side of the road:
http://i12.tinypic.com/2dmayoh.jpg
Harpers lane was the main through road from Chorley to Blachburn and was lined with terraced houses at the top end where 88 is and at the bottom end where the railway runs underneath it. Unless the whole street was renumbered possibly this number88 is the same one the family lived in.

[by jove!]

Hi Dot.Hawkes!

Sorry about the delay in getting back to you; been having computer problems!!

Thank you very much for all the info and especially for the photos taken with your mobile. That was very kind of you and much appreciated. It really makes things seem so real, rather than just names and dates, when you see actual photos. I am still waiting on ANN MANN's birth certificate but I'm fairly sure it is one and the same peron as Ann Morrison. GRO have told me that there is no father's name quoted on the birth certificate so that adds to my thinking. Can hardly wait to receive the cert.
Am off to Chorley over Easter sometime to see what I can find out! Will let you know how I go on and thanks again. You're a **** Star ****

[by jove!]

Have now received the birth certificate for Ann Mann and as expected there isn't a father's name given. Her mother's name is shown as Alice Mann (formerly - what looks like 'Rofs'!). At the time of birth the address is given as 11 Lodge Vale Great Bolton.

I think I'm stuck now as I don't know where I can go next with this one! Tried all the Rofs and variations I can think of and Robert Fishwick seems to be a non starter; could be virtually any of them, or in fact none of them!

Although I can find a few Robert Fishwick's having died between the birth of Ann in 1865 and her marriage in 1893, at which point Robert is shown as deceased, none of them really seem to fit the bill! Oddly, or perhaps not, I've followed another line with similar circumstances except on that one the deceased man on the marriage certificate never seems to have existed in the first place!! Weird, and driving me crackers!!

Is there any legality in putting a deceased persons name on a marriage certificate?

Thank you both for your help!