Reasons To Be Cheerful - Part Whatever
ChatterBank1 min ago
Wills and the calender book
I've just been watching Heir Hunters and they referred to the Calender Book. I assume it is an index of all wills. Where would I go to view this book
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Hi sigma
the Calendar of Grants are a huge collection of volumes that is the index to the wills and letters of administyraions granted since the inttoduction of the current probate system in England and Wales in January 1858, the volumes are about 2ft high and quite thick and take up alot of shelf space.
the Calendar of Grants are a huge collection of volumes that is the index to the wills and letters of administyraions granted since the inttoduction of the current probate system in England and Wales in January 1858, the volumes are about 2ft high and quite thick and take up alot of shelf space.
this is one of my 2 hour classes and so bear with me, i'll break it down into seperate posts for clarity.
OK
The early editions of the calendar of grants contain the names of the testator (the deceased) in alphabetical order by surname and within surname in alphabetical order by christian name. mised together in the book are wills and letters of administration, after a couple of years this changes and the wills are at the front and then at the back there is a further seperate index for the letters of administraion
To clarify, letters of administration (admons) are foir those who died intestate (no will ).
In the index the information included from the grant of probate is the same for each entry.
The testaors name, their address, the names of the trustees and then their date and place of death, date and probate office where the will/sdmons was granted and the value of the estate.
There is however, especially in the earlier volumes, often more than one volume for a year, and so you might get say for 1890 a book A - D them E - K then L - S then T - Z, i can't quite remember the full run of volumes per year and the alphabetical divide.
Right, where are they???
Well in lancashire there are 2 sets I believe, and bearing in mind the vast run of shelving they require that is understandable, the set I use is at the Lancashire County Record office at Bow lane Preston.
The other set it is the Manchester Record Office.
Most County Record Offices are required to carry a set and there is one at the Probate Registry in London, which was Somerset House.
see next post
OK
The early editions of the calendar of grants contain the names of the testator (the deceased) in alphabetical order by surname and within surname in alphabetical order by christian name. mised together in the book are wills and letters of administration, after a couple of years this changes and the wills are at the front and then at the back there is a further seperate index for the letters of administraion
To clarify, letters of administration (admons) are foir those who died intestate (no will ).
In the index the information included from the grant of probate is the same for each entry.
The testaors name, their address, the names of the trustees and then their date and place of death, date and probate office where the will/sdmons was granted and the value of the estate.
There is however, especially in the earlier volumes, often more than one volume for a year, and so you might get say for 1890 a book A - D them E - K then L - S then T - Z, i can't quite remember the full run of volumes per year and the alphabetical divide.
Right, where are they???
Well in lancashire there are 2 sets I believe, and bearing in mind the vast run of shelving they require that is understandable, the set I use is at the Lancashire County Record office at Bow lane Preston.
The other set it is the Manchester Record Office.
Most County Record Offices are required to carry a set and there is one at the Probate Registry in London, which was Somerset House.
see next post
actually whilst that answer was submitting it's occurred to me that there might be one at Liverpool Record Office, though liekly not, and I'll explain why.
The reason the caleendar of grants are to be found in CROs is because the probate registry offices around the country use the CROs as an archive for the actual wills and admons. Therefore, if you are using the Calendars in the CRO in lancashire at Preston, and you find a will in there that was proved at Liverpool probate registry, then the actual Will is archived at the Lancashire CRO too, you would need to obtain a copy of Jeremy Gibson's Gibson Guide to Probate Jurisdictions Post 1858 Wills, this identifies by County where the calendars are and where the wills and admons for each county are stored on a county level.
To order a copy of a will that you locate from the calendars you need to know the persons name daye of death and date of grant and probate office. you fill a pro-forma out either in person or by post and the CRO will make a copy for you at a cost per folio, not very expensive either.
i think that covers most things you would need to know.
BTW pre 1858 wills and admons came under the jurisdiction of the Ecclesiastical Courts and the administrayion system was based on the Hierarchy of the Church (Anglican) and the social/economic standing of the testator .
The reason the caleendar of grants are to be found in CROs is because the probate registry offices around the country use the CROs as an archive for the actual wills and admons. Therefore, if you are using the Calendars in the CRO in lancashire at Preston, and you find a will in there that was proved at Liverpool probate registry, then the actual Will is archived at the Lancashire CRO too, you would need to obtain a copy of Jeremy Gibson's Gibson Guide to Probate Jurisdictions Post 1858 Wills, this identifies by County where the calendars are and where the wills and admons for each county are stored on a county level.
To order a copy of a will that you locate from the calendars you need to know the persons name daye of death and date of grant and probate office. you fill a pro-forma out either in person or by post and the CRO will make a copy for you at a cost per folio, not very expensive either.
i think that covers most things you would need to know.
BTW pre 1858 wills and admons came under the jurisdiction of the Ecclesiastical Courts and the administrayion system was based on the Hierarchy of the Church (Anglican) and the social/economic standing of the testator .
You might also find this interesting?:~
http://www.bonavacantia.gov.uk/output/
This is a department of the Government Treasury Solicitor's Department.
http://www.bonavacantia.gov.uk/output/
This is a department of the Government Treasury Solicitor's Department.
pre 1858 wills are a very conplex subject but i shall try to concentrate on their current location rather than the actual process and organisation that created them.
Firstly, you would need the Gibson Guide Probate Jurisdictions: Where to look for Wills. This is organised by county and lists within the British isles and then within county, which record office holds which ecclesiastical jurisdictions wills. the PCC wills (Prerogative Court of canterbury) are at the PRO Kew, anyone of any high standing who left a will from 1383 is indexed and the will copt available.
the next court was the Prerogative court of York, then it goes to the Archgdeaconries and Deaneries. The wills for each court are now deposited in the relevent county record office and in most cases there is an index in hardback form which will likely have been compiled by the Parish Register Society many years ago. You would need to become a member of the County CRO (it's free, just need a couple of ids) to comb through the indexes in person. ot you could pay for a search.
The good thing about the Gibson Guide above is that it contains county maps that break the county down into the Archdeaconries. you just need to know where a person lived to know which index to which archdeaconry to look at.
It is the case though that if someone of standing held property in more than one archdeaconry you would need to check each index. It is also the case that if a person held property in more than one prerogative court you would need to check both, but likely the will would have been proved at Canterbury.
The original wills often contain inventories, which are details accounts of the testators property at the time of death, this can include such amazing items as crops standing, livestock, clothing, beds and bedding and any household items. These should all be geenrally included in the actual will with specific bequests to family, things like, I leave my best bed to my son etc.
Firstly, you would need the Gibson Guide Probate Jurisdictions: Where to look for Wills. This is organised by county and lists within the British isles and then within county, which record office holds which ecclesiastical jurisdictions wills. the PCC wills (Prerogative Court of canterbury) are at the PRO Kew, anyone of any high standing who left a will from 1383 is indexed and the will copt available.
the next court was the Prerogative court of York, then it goes to the Archgdeaconries and Deaneries. The wills for each court are now deposited in the relevent county record office and in most cases there is an index in hardback form which will likely have been compiled by the Parish Register Society many years ago. You would need to become a member of the County CRO (it's free, just need a couple of ids) to comb through the indexes in person. ot you could pay for a search.
The good thing about the Gibson Guide above is that it contains county maps that break the county down into the Archdeaconries. you just need to know where a person lived to know which index to which archdeaconry to look at.
It is the case though that if someone of standing held property in more than one archdeaconry you would need to check each index. It is also the case that if a person held property in more than one prerogative court you would need to check both, but likely the will would have been proved at Canterbury.
The original wills often contain inventories, which are details accounts of the testators property at the time of death, this can include such amazing items as crops standing, livestock, clothing, beds and bedding and any household items. These should all be geenrally included in the actual will with specific bequests to family, things like, I leave my best bed to my son etc.
The inventories would be carried out by usually local officers like the majistrate or churhc wardens who would be able to value each item based on their local knowledge.
Letters of admons are also included in the index and these can also contain inventories and so they should not be bypassed in the research.
As for who would leave a will, it is surprising really, anyone could make a will, the local parish clerk would be the person who would likely call on a person to take the dictation and not many people needed to use solicitors . The wills vary in style and the early ones, usually in latin, contain a standard declaration of faith and mental capacity and burial wishes, once you get used to spotting this you can bypass most of it (though look for the clues to covert catholocism) (another class lol) and get to the main bequests including relationships.
Anyone owning anything would be inclined to make a will, even if it was �5, the more property value involved, whether land, money or possessions, the hight the court was that dealt with proving the will.
It is really a case of starting at the local county record office loking at the indexes and then seeing what you find. The wills as I say are available to look at by ordering them up from the archive in the CRO, usually 3 at a time, this is also free, if the will is in a condition for copying there is just a small fee per folio.
Unmarried women did leave wills too and so don't ignore the female side of your family.
Letters of admons are also included in the index and these can also contain inventories and so they should not be bypassed in the research.
As for who would leave a will, it is surprising really, anyone could make a will, the local parish clerk would be the person who would likely call on a person to take the dictation and not many people needed to use solicitors . The wills vary in style and the early ones, usually in latin, contain a standard declaration of faith and mental capacity and burial wishes, once you get used to spotting this you can bypass most of it (though look for the clues to covert catholocism) (another class lol) and get to the main bequests including relationships.
Anyone owning anything would be inclined to make a will, even if it was �5, the more property value involved, whether land, money or possessions, the hight the court was that dealt with proving the will.
It is really a case of starting at the local county record office loking at the indexes and then seeing what you find. The wills as I say are available to look at by ordering them up from the archive in the CRO, usually 3 at a time, this is also free, if the will is in a condition for copying there is just a small fee per folio.
Unmarried women did leave wills too and so don't ignore the female side of your family.
yes craft i think the wills on ancestry are the index to the prerogative court of canterbury from about 1750- 1800 The people that used that court for probate would have been of the highest standing in the land, I think it is the original Society of Genealogist index but there may be earlier ones from the SOG earlier indexing project that the SOG will have sold to ancestry.
I forgot to mention the consistory courts and the preculiars, mmm might leave that alone for now, don't want to confuse people!
I forgot to mention the consistory courts and the preculiars, mmm might leave that alone for now, don't want to confuse people!
Hi again sigma, i used to put on 10 week beginners and intermediate courses for the Department of Continuing Education at lancaster University at the County Record Office in preston, and also for The lancashire College and for several family History Societies. I haven't done a course since about 1997 now, I do miss them, but the information does not change in the sources, only the conputerised indexing and possibly the location of some of the primary and secondary source ,material. I very much encourage people to use their CROs and local studies libraries, especially as beginners, as we will lose that resource if is is underused. Also, at your local library you can access ancestry.co.uk library edition for free, which gives someone just starting their research an opportunity to work out how the GRO index and census records work rather than them wasting money on a subscription initially
-- answer removed --
certainly Jack, go ahead, if you can just carry on and explain the inheritance process of a FEE SIMPLE AND FEE TAIL and the rights of the direct descendanst in the manor course as opposed to the collaterals, remeber to bring in the surrender of the copyhold land and the new bequest laws after 1540, else people will be misled, carry on, i am sure you can cover the Borough english too which of course is essential
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