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1881 census question
Hi there. I am doing some research into my ancestors and am trying to find out more about my great-grandfather (Owen Roe) on the 1881 census. Being born in 1862 I presume he would be there but he is not and I have managed to find him on the 1871, 1891 and 1901 census. I am specifically interested in the 1881 census as there is more information available for free then on the other censuses. Could there be a reason for this like a protest or another reason? I find it unusual that he is listed on censuses before and after 1881 but not on that census itself.
Any help is much appreciated, thanks :)
Any help is much appreciated, thanks :)
Answers
One reason could be he was not in England and Wales on census day.
Or whoever completed the return left him off because he was not in the household that day, thinking somebody else would include him if he was elsewhere.
Or he got forgotten.
Or, as you say, he deliberately absented himself.
Or whoever completed the return left him off because he was not in the household that day, thinking somebody else would include him if he was elsewhere.
Or he got forgotten.
Or, as you say, he deliberately absented himself.
17:50 Sat 05th Sep 2009
oooo i may have found him in 1881!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is a possibility:
Household Record 1881 British Census
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Household:
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John BOWDEN Head U Male 27 Bristol, Gloucester, England Dealer In Antique Furniture
George ROE Lodger U Male 19 Cambridge, Cambridge, England Assist
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 193 Wardour St
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341028
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0126 / 104
Page Number 33
we said before he should be about 19, he's working as an assistant in an antique furniture shop, he's born in cambridge and he is using his second christian name, or at least it is transcribed in the index as George.
It looks like a winner to me, what do you think???
This is a possibility:
Household Record 1881 British Census
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Household:
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John BOWDEN Head U Male 27 Bristol, Gloucester, England Dealer In Antique Furniture
George ROE Lodger U Male 19 Cambridge, Cambridge, England Assist
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source Information:
Dwelling 193 Wardour St
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341028
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0126 / 104
Page Number 33
we said before he should be about 19, he's working as an assistant in an antique furniture shop, he's born in cambridge and he is using his second christian name, or at least it is transcribed in the index as George.
It looks like a winner to me, what do you think???
(Owen) George must have gone to London between 1874 and 1881 as an apprentice to the antique furniture dealer, i would imagine he went at 14, as that is when apprenticeships started, he probably moved back up to Cambridge sometime after he was 21 to marry in 1888, in the 1891 census is he running his own dealership by then? Also, was his wife from cambrisge or did he marry her in London?
I should let you do my family tree for me! Thanks so much for all the information this is really useful and very interesting.
Firstly I would think your find regarding Owen Roe's brother is correct as Joseph Roe was also born in Ipswich and Owen Roe's (snr) first son was also called Joseph presumably after his brother in that case. I presume it is also possible that Joseph Roe also had more children that had left home
You have raised some interesting points about the way they organised the baptism's. Thank you for finding the dates of the baptism. I think the baptism date of birth may be incorrect as I have found dates of births that say otherwise and your find below seems to be to the contrary as well.
As a matter of fact I found that census record before were he is lodging with John Bowden and am grateful that you brought this up. I originally thought it could be him but why would he write himself as George when the censuses before and after say Owen George Roe. Other than the name I can't see any reason why that isn't him though and the fact that he is an assistant in an antique furniture shop is also strong evidence to prove it is him.
He did not move back to Cambridge after his time in London as him and his wife started a family in Oxford as all their children were born there. His wife was born in London in 1870 and her name was Florence Helena Sims and then Florence Helena Roe after they got married in 1888 and I believe they were married in Oxford.
Firstly I would think your find regarding Owen Roe's brother is correct as Joseph Roe was also born in Ipswich and Owen Roe's (snr) first son was also called Joseph presumably after his brother in that case. I presume it is also possible that Joseph Roe also had more children that had left home
You have raised some interesting points about the way they organised the baptism's. Thank you for finding the dates of the baptism. I think the baptism date of birth may be incorrect as I have found dates of births that say otherwise and your find below seems to be to the contrary as well.
As a matter of fact I found that census record before were he is lodging with John Bowden and am grateful that you brought this up. I originally thought it could be him but why would he write himself as George when the censuses before and after say Owen George Roe. Other than the name I can't see any reason why that isn't him though and the fact that he is an assistant in an antique furniture shop is also strong evidence to prove it is him.
He did not move back to Cambridge after his time in London as him and his wife started a family in Oxford as all their children were born there. His wife was born in London in 1870 and her name was Florence Helena Sims and then Florence Helena Roe after they got married in 1888 and I believe they were married in Oxford.
The fact they married on London clinches it then, remember, the transcript we are looking at is a word processed version of a hand written version that was transcribed by volunteers in the 1990s who were reading photocopies of the enumerators books (and often they were transcribing pieces that were from unfamiliar areas) which were written out by hand by the enumerator from the forms he collected from each address which were filled in by the head of the house!!!! That's alot of opportunities for the name Owen to not be on there!!!
The ages given in the parish register of the older children at the time of their baptism in november 1874, could give them a birth date almost a year out age wise,
The ages given in the parish register of the older children at the time of their baptism in november 1874, could give them a birth date almost a year out age wise,
I haven't looked at all at Florence's family but I found them on the 1881 census. Thank you for the marriage date as well. Thank you for all the information you have provided as it is really useful and I really appreciate this.
Anyway, on a slightly different note I was just wondering if you could advise as to how to do genealogical research online into countries abroad. I am especially interested in trying to do some research into ancestors in the Czech Republic and South Africa. I had a look on google but to no avail. If you could recommend any good sites or any other tips then I would really appreciate this. Thank you :)
Anyway, on a slightly different note I was just wondering if you could advise as to how to do genealogical research online into countries abroad. I am especially interested in trying to do some research into ancestors in the Czech Republic and South Africa. I had a look on google but to no avail. If you could recommend any good sites or any other tips then I would really appreciate this. Thank you :)
When attempting to research abroard it is essential to really understand what archives were created in each country. Most European /Western countries had a form of civil registration like our own from around the middle to the late 1900s. Many carried out census returns but probably not quite the same as the UK, therefore your first research should be to locate the National Archives for each country and read through their help guides, this way you understand the central and regional administration systems. then you need to look at the religions and how the religious authorities kept their records, did the Church record baptisms and marriages the weay we did, or was the church not authorised to perform marriages.
certainly you would be looking in two countries that have gone through massive change in the last decades, South Africa of course being originally part of the Empire and ruled by our Queen and her pre-desessors
http://www.national.archives.gov.za/
http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?ParagraphID=orl />
http://www.nacr.cz/eindex.htm
http://www.facts-about.org.uk/history-and-events-timeline-czech-republic.htm
Then you should read up on the Genealogical Societies that exist in those countries:
http://www.eggsa.org/
19:49 Sun 06th Sep 2009
certainly you would be looking in two countries that have gone through massive change in the last decades, South Africa of course being originally part of the Empire and ruled by our Queen and her pre-desessors
http://www.national.archives.gov.za/
http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?ParagraphID=orl
http://www.facts-about.org.uk/history-and-events-timeline-czech-republic.htm
Then you should read up on the Genealogical Societies that exist in those countries:
http://www.eggsa.org/
19:49 Sun 06th Sep 2009
this didn't show for some reason:
http://www.feefhs.org/
http://www.feefhs.org/
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