Still in opposition to the death penalty?

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail....e-disabled-woman.html

Can some of Britain's society sink any lower than these 5 savages have sunk to?

There have been many unspeakable crimes committed in the past, but most of those who committed them met their end at the end of a rope.

I know that there are some who even after reading this despicable case will still oppose the death penalty, the question must be why?

[New Judge]

I think the two most usual grounds for opposition to the death penalty, AOG, are:

1.That a civilised society should not sanction murder by the State, no matter how heinous the crime.

2.Miscarriages of justice cannot be rectified.

I think the first is a matter of philosophy. You either agree that some crimes are so despicable that nothing short of the perpetrator forfeiting their right to live will suffice, or you do not.

There are considerable difficulties with the second as there certainly have been some instances where a person has been wrongly convicted of a Capital offence. However, these are not as numerous as opponents would have you believe (though I accept that just one is one too many). But the often quoted cases of Derek Bentley (despite his conviction being quashed in 1998) and Ruth Ellis do not fall into this category, in my opinion.

I have two issues with the current arrangements:

Firstly the public (not unusually) were misled by politicians when the death penalty was abolished in the 1960s. They were led to believe that instead of facing execution those convicted of murder would spend “life” behind bars. No alternative interpretation of the term “Life” was provided to that then understood (i.e. the rest of one's life) and certainly not one so wide as in used now, where someone convicted to a “Life” sentence spends as little as eight years inside. Yes, I know they are released “on licence”, but that does not entail the sort of incarceration the public expects.

Secondly and again not unusually this is no longer a matter for the UK Parliament. The Council of Europe requires that all EU member states (and prospective member states) do not operate the death penalty and since there is more chance of me winning a Gold Medal at the 2012 Olympics than of the UK leaving the EU, that is that.

[albaqwerty]

I thoroughly agree with you NJ.

State sanctioned murder does not prevent anyone else from commtting heinous crimes.

Now, when someone is sentenced to life imprisonment, it is recommended that they are to serve a minimum of 9 years for example. That is not Life Imprisonment.

[BrainsTracy]

Well lets hope they stay in the slammer for ever at least anyway.

[B00]

"Still in opposition to the death penalty?"

Yes.

[keyplus90]

Why?

There are two reasons.

1 - Death penalty is often associated with Shariah law and people are afraid of that "word".

2- People will keep on opposing death penalty until victims are their own loved ones. But then others will oppose them.

[Zeuhl]

One either thinks that what these people did is wrong or you don't.

Personally I think what they did is despicable so I certainly don't want it repeating in some version sanctioned by the state- that is what demonstrates the difference between our Values and theirs.

For anyone who does think that state sponsored killing in the form of a death penalty is a good idea, the question must be; for what purpose?

[jno]

yes, still opposed.

Something in the Ten Commandments, isn't there?

[Zeuhl]

<<Remember Lord Longford saying Myra Hindley was a good woman. >>

Hindley died in prison - quite properly imo

So your point is?

[Gromit]

There is currently a trial of police officers in relation to the so called 'Cardiff Three' case. Three innocent men were wrongly convicted of the death of a prostitute Lynnette White. If the death penalty had been still in operation, they would probably have been hung.

http://www.google.com...N0252691315410258952A

While miscarriages of Justice still occur on a regular basis, then the chance of innocent people being put to death would make it difficult for me to support bring back hanging.

[rojash]

Still opposed.
And still for the same reasons.

[New Judge]

I’m not so sure about the Sharia Law aspect, keyplus. I must say it has never crossed my mind.

You are right about people’s views changing if they (or in this case, their loved ones) fall victim. I keep on harping on about this when matters of sentencing are discussed, but I’ll say it again:

There is a deal between the citizens and the State that individuals relinquish the right to take action against those who have committed crimes against them and instead trust the State to do so on their behalf. Their MP’s, via Parliament, are their agents in this deal and they expect Parliament to set realistic maximum (and sometimes minimum) sentences. Judges and Magistrates should hand down those sentences in accordance with guidelines which should realistically reflect the expectations of the citizens.

There is evidence of this deal being widely broken here in the UK for four reasons:

1. Parliament seems unwilling or unable to legislate for realistic maximum sentences.

2. Guidelines are being manipulated in order to depress actual sentences imposed.

3. Terms of imprisonment are being almost arbitrarily curtailed so that the sentence imposed bears no relation to the time served. All those sentenced to a determinate period in prison serve at most only half of that time inside. Just yesterday My Lords Taylor and Hanningfield were released from prison after serving just one quarter of their prison sentences imposed for fraud.

4. European Law often trumps the wishes of the UK Parliament.


All this is seriously undermining the deal between the State and its citizens and the abolition of the Death Penalty (and its possible reintroduction) exhibit one or more of these shortcomings.

Frankly, the electorate deserves better.

[Zeuhl]

<<she would no doubt have been released given to-days ridiculous notions about long term incarcerations. >>

No she wouldn't. Why would you imagine that bearing in mind it was as recent as 2002 that she died with no hope of release.

You have actually presented excellent evidence against the death penalty in that particularly heinous cases such as Hindley are not released.

[sandyRoe]

There are three cases in relatively recent times where the death penalty would have been handed down and innocent men and women executed. They were the cases of the Guildford Four, the Birmingham Six, and the M62 coach bombing.
That might be reason enough to oppose hanging.
I think 'life' should mean just that.

[Zeuhl]

<<I am sure to-days modern DNA methods would erradicate such issues.>>

Forensics is not a magic wand - never has been never will be. Don't go by what you see on CSI.

Ask Barry George how his jury was swayed by ludicrous forensics. At least you can ask him; in your rather grubby world of let's 'save the country a lot of money' Barry George would have been murdered in your name.