Is God Good ?

[modeller]

I am going to a talk called 'Is God Good ' It's being presented by a Baptist Minister.
Now being as even the existance of God can not to proved . That question is impossible to answer directly. I will challenge the question at the outset but how do you suggest I could take it from there ?

[bibblebub]

Most of, if not all, the other attendees will probably take the existence of a deity as axiomatic and so they won't put up with any challenge to that idea for very long, especially since that isn't the theme of the talk.

[woofgang]

why are you going to the talk?

[Sir Alec]

No. I have been treated appallingly by people my whole life for the crime of being ugly. Is this a test from God? If it is, he, she or it should be punished. I cannot walk down a street without some man telling me how ugly I am. I hope they all rot in the hell I don't believe in.

[naomi24]

Modeller, difficult to say when you don't know which direction the discussion will take after your initial challenge. Perhaps the organisers made a mistake in promoting the talk as a question rather than a statement. ;o)

Sir Alec. //I cannot walk down a street without some man telling me how ugly I am. //

You're giving them more credit than they deserve. They are not men. x

[Quizmonster]

I appreciate that 'great' is not synonymous with 'good', but I suggest you read Christoper Hitchens' book, 'God is not Great' before the talk. Ample ammunition there!

[wildwood]

I am sure there will be some well rehearsed reply to your query. You won't be the first one who challenged the question.

[WaldoMcFroog]

Go and watch the Intelligence Squared debate "Is the Catholic church a force for good in the world?" with Stephen Fry and Christopher Hitchens vs Archbishop John Onaiyekan and Ann Widdencombe.

Obviously it's a motion about the Catholic Church, but many of the points are readily transferrable.

Also endorse the previous comment about Hitch's "Is God Great?" book, which is a very funny polemic.

Essentially, you need to get them discussing whether morality is defined by God, in which case, good becomes defined by what God does and means things like flooding the entire world and saving just 8 people are morally 'good' even though, if this had actually happened, it clearly wouldn't be, ditto the many genocides of the OT and thus 'good' is of no value as a standard or if good is an obectively good standard, then God manifestly does not fit it.

[WaldoMcFroog]

'God is not Great', I meant. D'oh!

[ludwig]

// Now being as even the existance of God can not be proved . That question is impossible to answer directly. I will challenge the question at the outset.. //

Rather than challenging his existence, you have to start with the assumption that he does. Then you can determine whether he's good or not based on the evidence you see all around.

[Quizmonster]

There's always this from Richard Dawkins...
“The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."
Evidence aplenty in the Old Testament itself!

[naomi24]

Christopher Hitchens' book is excellent and you'll find the debate Waldo mentioned on YouTube - and you might want to have a look at some of the stuff by Sam Harris too.

[modeller]

woolfgang #why are you going to the talk?#
For the same reason you are asking the question. It is to question , discuss , learn , hear other peoples views , to see things in a different light.
Just as we do on Answerbank.

[modeller]

bibblebub #Most of, if not all, the other attendees will probably take the existence of a deity as axiomatic#
It's not actually . We had a meeting entitled 'Grill the Vicars ' where the vicars were 'in the dock' and the audience were invited to challenge them on any theological subject . There were probably more non believers than believers .

I said it was impossible to judge an entity that only exists in peoples minds. Nothing has ever been written by GOD ! Therefore everything that is written or claimed comes from man.
Maybe if the organiser had used the title 'Is a belief in God Good' That would open up the discussion.

[woofgang]

sorry modeller, I would respond to your post but I haven't stopped laughing.

[modeller]

billand I thought I had made this clear these meetings are attended by a wide range of people theists, atheists , and those who go along just because they like to dicuss any controversial subject and others for the beer (It is held in a community bar .) The title is a starter and meant to be challenged.

[modeller]

Quizmaster #Evidence aplenty in the Old Testament itself.#
I would suggest that may be evidence of the writers belief , not of a mythical God.
Richard Dawkins colourful language is purely repeating the rantings of clerics down the ages. He is not offering any proof that it is not pure mythology. He is however illustrating the fables on which many theists base their faith.

[modeller]

woolfgang #sorry modeller, I would respond to your post but I haven't stopped laughing. #

I'm glad you are so easy to please . It's nice to bring at least a little happiness into peoples lives.

[modeller]

Quizmaster Thanks for the R Dawkins quote I shall read it out at the meeting as I'm sure the OT will come up in the discussion.

waldo, naomi, I will listen to God is not Great if I can find it.

[Quizmonster]

It's of no great significance and I mention it solely because there IS an AnswerBanker called QuizmAster, but my user-name is QuizmONster.