ChatterBank1 min ago
Catholic adoption agency loses legal battle.
19 Answers
http://
/// Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg was also caught up in the debate after the draft of a speech used ‘bigot’ to describe opponents of same-sex marriage. ///
Is it fair for anyone who opposes gay couples adopting children being called a 'Bigot', yet it seems perfectly in order for some to oppose white couples from adopting black children?
/// "The most valuable resource of any ethnic group is its children. Nevertheless, black children are being taken from black families by the process of the law and being placed in white families. It is, in essence, 'internal colonialism' and a new form of the slave trade, but only black children are used." ///
http://
/// Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg was also caught up in the debate after the draft of a speech used ‘bigot’ to describe opponents of same-sex marriage. ///
Is it fair for anyone who opposes gay couples adopting children being called a 'Bigot', yet it seems perfectly in order for some to oppose white couples from adopting black children?
/// "The most valuable resource of any ethnic group is its children. Nevertheless, black children are being taken from black families by the process of the law and being placed in white families. It is, in essence, 'internal colonialism' and a new form of the slave trade, but only black children are used." ///
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inter racial adoption seems to work in the US
http://www.chocolatehairvanillacare.com
the Guardian article describes abuse pure and simple. It may be racist abuse but those abusers should not have been allowed to adopt ANY child.
http://www.chocolatehairvanillacare.com
the Guardian article describes abuse pure and simple. It may be racist abuse but those abusers should not have been allowed to adopt ANY child.
AOG
You asked:
Is it fair for anyone who opposes gay couples adopting children being called a 'Bigot'
And then referred to Nick Clegg's leaked email.
He wasn't talking about gay adoption, he was talking about opponents of marriage equality.
These are separate issues.
You said on an earlier thread about gay adoption (the case of the grandparents of a child that was placed with a gay couple), that under ideal circumstance, children should be adopted by members of their own family, and failing that, a family with a mum and dad of the same racial background.
So are you now saying that you agree that black kids should be placed wherever possible, with black adoptive families?
You asked:
Is it fair for anyone who opposes gay couples adopting children being called a 'Bigot'
And then referred to Nick Clegg's leaked email.
He wasn't talking about gay adoption, he was talking about opponents of marriage equality.
These are separate issues.
You said on an earlier thread about gay adoption (the case of the grandparents of a child that was placed with a gay couple), that under ideal circumstance, children should be adopted by members of their own family, and failing that, a family with a mum and dad of the same racial background.
So are you now saying that you agree that black kids should be placed wherever possible, with black adoptive families?
AOG
I apologise and withdraw that last comment (where I referred to you saying that children should ideally be brought up by adoptive families of the same racial background).
I misremembered your post. I've found it and you did not say that at all:
http://
I apologise and withdraw that last comment (where I referred to you saying that children should ideally be brought up by adoptive families of the same racial background).
I misremembered your post. I've found it and you did not say that at all:
http://
I think in an ideal world it would be nice to place kids within their own ethnicity, white kids with white parents, black kids with black parents, mixed race kids with...oh wait- what happens when a mixed race relationship ends? The child very often ends up being brought up in one culture, so we need to be very careful about how ' harmful' we consider mixed race adoption/ fostering because we then cast doubt on the validity of lots of single parents with their own mixed race child. Take that it's extreme and we could draw the conclusion that because it might fail and potentially harm the offspring that mixed race marriage is not a good idea. Is that the case? Of course not. If the right white couple adopt a black child or the right black couple adopt a white child no harm will be done. If you allow lunatics to foster kids who think it's okay to racially abuse them, Anglisise their name and denigrate their culture then obviously you will have a problem and as Wolf said those people should not be allowed to adopt ANY child.
The issue of gay marriage is nothing whatsoever to do with this and yes people who oppose it are in my opinion bigoted.
The issue of gay marriage is nothing whatsoever to do with this and yes people who oppose it are in my opinion bigoted.
sp1814
Yes you are quite correct, I was getting the two statements mixed up, but really they both have the same connection ie same sex marriages, and same sex couples adopting children.
You have nor however addressed the passage regarding white couples adopting black children, being 'internal colonialism' and a new form of the slave trade.
Surely you now must agree that this is rather a bigoted view?
Yes you are quite correct, I was getting the two statements mixed up, but really they both have the same connection ie same sex marriages, and same sex couples adopting children.
You have nor however addressed the passage regarding white couples adopting black children, being 'internal colonialism' and a new form of the slave trade.
Surely you now must agree that this is rather a bigoted view?
Nox
/// The issue of gay marriage is nothing whatsoever to do with this and yes people who oppose it are in my opinion bigoted. ///
It would seem that the High Court judge Mr Justice Sales, disagrees with your opinion.
Roman Catholics who support traditional marriage and oppose gay rights are not bigots, a High Court judge declared yesterday[i
]Mr Justice Sales said those who follow religious beliefs long established across Europe ‘cannot be equated with racist bigotsquote[
]Rather, he said, these Christian views ‘have a legitimate place in a pluralist, tolerant and broadminded society[i]
/// The issue of gay marriage is nothing whatsoever to do with this and yes people who oppose it are in my opinion bigoted. ///
It would seem that the High Court judge Mr Justice Sales, disagrees with your opinion.
Roman Catholics who support traditional marriage and oppose gay rights are not bigots, a High Court judge declared yesterday[i
]Mr Justice Sales said those who follow religious beliefs long established across Europe ‘cannot be equated with racist bigotsquote[
]Rather, he said, these Christian views ‘have a legitimate place in a pluralist, tolerant and broadminded society[i]
Very diplomatically put by the judge. But why is this news? The law is plain enough. There is no surprise that the decision is what it is. That one agency makes lawyers richer by establishing the obvious, something which other agencies have already accepted, is hardly a big story. There are seriously misguided litigants in court every day, but their cases don't make it into the national papers
woofgang
/// If the most valuable resource of any ethnic group is its children, how do those children end up in care? ///
Perhaps these black children who are in care, are there because they have been abused by their black parents.
So surely it is better for them to be adopted by a loving white family, than to spend their childhood days in care?
/// If the most valuable resource of any ethnic group is its children, how do those children end up in care? ///
Perhaps these black children who are in care, are there because they have been abused by their black parents.
So surely it is better for them to be adopted by a loving white family, than to spend their childhood days in care?
AOG
Placing children with families who share a cultural identity would be ideal, but simply keeping them in care until such a family turns up doesn't make sense.
The problem stems from the fact that whilst there are many black foster families, there aren't enough black adopters. The reason may be down to ecomonics - there are far more affluent/middle class adopters (how many working class families adopt) and there simply isn't enough middle class professional families to adopt black kids in care...therefore these children have little chance of being placed with black families.
As to whether this demonstrates a form of internalised colonialism/slave trade - that's not an argument I'd support.
Placing children with families who share a cultural identity would be ideal, but simply keeping them in care until such a family turns up doesn't make sense.
The problem stems from the fact that whilst there are many black foster families, there aren't enough black adopters. The reason may be down to ecomonics - there are far more affluent/middle class adopters (how many working class families adopt) and there simply isn't enough middle class professional families to adopt black kids in care...therefore these children have little chance of being placed with black families.
As to whether this demonstrates a form of internalised colonialism/slave trade - that's not an argument I'd support.
sp1814
/// The reason may be down to ecomonics - there are far more affluent/middle class adopters (how many working class families adopt) and there simply isn't enough middle class professional families to adopt black kids in care...therefore these children have little chance of being placed with black families. ///
Oh no not that old chestnut again, it seems whenever there is an problem regarding black persons, the excuse is often down to economics.
Why is this just because one is black doesn't necessarily mean that one has less opportunities, one has the same education opportunities as whites, in fact in some prominently black areas they enjoy extra financial funding.
It is all down to what the individual does with those opportunities, the Asian community are a prime example, Doctors, Pharmacists, Optometrist, etc etc.
But then it is not only Middle Class couples who adopt, there are many ordinary working class white families who adopt.
/// The reason may be down to ecomonics - there are far more affluent/middle class adopters (how many working class families adopt) and there simply isn't enough middle class professional families to adopt black kids in care...therefore these children have little chance of being placed with black families. ///
Oh no not that old chestnut again, it seems whenever there is an problem regarding black persons, the excuse is often down to economics.
Why is this just because one is black doesn't necessarily mean that one has less opportunities, one has the same education opportunities as whites, in fact in some prominently black areas they enjoy extra financial funding.
It is all down to what the individual does with those opportunities, the Asian community are a prime example, Doctors, Pharmacists, Optometrist, etc etc.
But then it is not only Middle Class couples who adopt, there are many ordinary working class white families who adopt.
jackthehat
/// So surely it is better for them to be adopted by a loving gay family, than to spend their childhood days in care? ///
There is a whole lot of difference for a child to be brought up by a Male and Female couple, than by a Male/Male couple although a or Female/Female couple seems a little more acceptable than the latter.
This is the way nature intended, if it didn't then both sexes would be capable of bearing children, and since it is the female of the species that bears the children, then that is the reason it seems more acceptable for a child to brought up in a female/female union rather than a male/male union.
/// So surely it is better for them to be adopted by a loving gay family, than to spend their childhood days in care? ///
There is a whole lot of difference for a child to be brought up by a Male and Female couple, than by a Male/Male couple although a or Female/Female couple seems a little more acceptable than the latter.
This is the way nature intended, if it didn't then both sexes would be capable of bearing children, and since it is the female of the species that bears the children, then that is the reason it seems more acceptable for a child to brought up in a female/female union rather than a male/male union.
AOG
It may be an old chestnut, but that doesn't make it untrue.
The vast majority of middle class families are white. You're assuming that everyone has exactly the same opportunities in life as everyone else. That is extreme wishful thinking. If you think that a middle class child born to a couple living in Buckinghamshire earning £120,000 a year has the same educational chances as a child born to a couple living in Peckham earning £18,000 a year, then you're being very optimistic.
It's a numbers thing. The number of black households in the UK is small compared to the number of white households. Therefore, the number of available middle class black families is going to be tiny, so the pool of black professionals available to adopt will likewise be tiny.
Also, why are you saying that this is a 'problem with black people'?
You make it sound like black people should be criticised for not adopting children. People don't adopt kids out of pure altruism. They do it because they want to do it.
Also, you're ignoring the many black families who are part of the foster care programme. Now that shows true altruism.
It may be an old chestnut, but that doesn't make it untrue.
The vast majority of middle class families are white. You're assuming that everyone has exactly the same opportunities in life as everyone else. That is extreme wishful thinking. If you think that a middle class child born to a couple living in Buckinghamshire earning £120,000 a year has the same educational chances as a child born to a couple living in Peckham earning £18,000 a year, then you're being very optimistic.
It's a numbers thing. The number of black households in the UK is small compared to the number of white households. Therefore, the number of available middle class black families is going to be tiny, so the pool of black professionals available to adopt will likewise be tiny.
Also, why are you saying that this is a 'problem with black people'?
You make it sound like black people should be criticised for not adopting children. People don't adopt kids out of pure altruism. They do it because they want to do it.
Also, you're ignoring the many black families who are part of the foster care programme. Now that shows true altruism.
AOG
Have a look at the section headed 'Socioeconomic Class: The Power of Money' in the following paper. It's American-based, but there's no reason to suggest that it doesn't apply here too.
http://www.sagepub.com/upm-data/41958_3.pdf
Have a look at the section headed 'Socioeconomic Class: The Power of Money' in the following paper. It's American-based, but there's no reason to suggest that it doesn't apply here too.
http://www.sagepub.com/upm-data/41958_3.pdf
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