So Will Labour And Liberal Voters Follow Dave?

[youngmafbog]

So Obergruppenführer Dave is dictating to Tories they must follow him on Europe or be fired.

Well, will the others follow suite or will they, like Mr Wilson did, allow a free vote?

In/Out of Europe is not a left/right things as many on here try to make it so in my opinion it most certainly should be free. An important referendum when anyone is forced to tow the line is morally wrong.

And will the other parties be ready for another Election when idiot Cameron is forced out?

And if there is another election will others do as I will do and not vote Cameron this time.

This really smacks of the bullying and underhand politics we saw in the Scottish referendum.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3114613/Back-sack-says-PM-David-Cameron-s-referendum-shock-Eurosceptic-ministers.html

[youngmafbog]

Error in the title should have read leaders not 'voters'

[Hopkirk]

I didn't know that Labour and Libdems had leaders.

[Old_Geezer]

I'm sure a party leader would expect the cabinet to generally support decisions, collective responsibility and all that. Suggesting the whole party must do is rather controlling. Is he suggesting a 3 line whip for all regarding the EU or something ?

This is about him re-negotiating, yes ? Well I doubt anyone had great issues in wasting his time trying that. But any referendum related stuff has to be a free vote thing taking into account whatever he achieved, if anything worth mentioning.

But in answer to your title question, I can't see many non-Tory voters following Dave.

[mikey4444]

I'm afraid that this debate about Europe is a debate between right and left. Its only the Tory Party, the BNP and UKIP that really want a referendum. Dave doesn't really want a referendum either, as he knows what will happen to his Party during the run up to it....its started already. But UKIP scared him to getting off the fence.

But I think it should be a free vote, nevertheless.

[youngmafbog]

//I'm afraid that this debate about Europe is a debate between right and left//

No it is not.

[Old_Geezer]

Parties have changed their official stance on occasion. I don't believe it is a left/right issue, I know many who oppose the present official line that their prefer party holds on the EU. For sure anyone who doesn't want change will be less keen on a vote though.

[anotheoldgit]

Surely it matters not what the politicians think, that's the whole idea of a referendum, it is the people who will have their say.

[jim360]

It is the people who will have the final say, but measures like this have the potential to bias the debate in favour of staying in. There's fundamentally no point in holding a referendum if one position is being effectively silenced. Cameron has to allow the debate to be open and free, at all levels of his party. If he's worried about the party then being torn apart, I don't think trying to rule with an iron fist is any more likely to stop that happening than allowing the open debate. Indeed the approach he's taking could be more damaging in the long run.

[ichkeria]

You can't have members of the cabinet not in agreement on something as crucial as this. You'd hope anyone not in agreement with this would resign without having to be hold.
Cameron isn't bullying anyone. He may be an idiot but he is not so stupid as to think his government could survive with open warfare in its ranks. Of course he may get that anyway but that will be a consequence of his decision to hold a referendum in the first place

[Peter Pedant]

Dave is leading a party and not a rabble or Mothers; Union and is entitled to demand his minions toe the party line

[youngmafbog]

PP, on most issues I would agree.

However this is so fundamental to the whole future an open debate is the only way forward. If you dont there will always be critics and an undercurrent as to suppression.

Acting like a dictator makes him no better than Putin.

[ludwig]

It seems reasonable to me. It's a fundamental issue, so if you openly disagree with the PM and rest of the cabinet on a fundamental issue, I don't see why you should expect to remain in the cabinet.

[bazwillrun]

Hed be ideal in the eussr, they like dictating and issuing threats to those that dont....

[bazwillrun]

...follow their orders

[Canary42]

Poor old Dave. He made a very courageous move in offering a referendum, knowing it would gain a lot of votes at the General Election. But it's not looking so good now, especially since Labour have made a U-turn (getting more like the Tories every day) on this aspect.

But basically it is apolitical IMHO.

[New Judge]

I note from the latest reports that either the PM has been mis-quoted or he is now back tracking. From a BBC report:

"But Mr Cameron's spokeswoman said reporters at the G7 Summit in Germany had "over interpreted his remarks".

She said he had referred to the period of the negotiations, rather than the referendum campaign itself.

So, what he is now saying is that he expects his ministers to support him in the renegotiations (which is perfectly fair) but not necessarily in the referendum.

However, Mr Cameron has broken the first rule of negotiation by revealing his bottom line before concluding the negotiations:

"The government isn't neutral in this. We have a clear view: renegotiate, get a deal that's in Britain's interest and then recommend Britain stays in it."

He has already suggested that he feels able to get a deal that is in Britain’s interest and that he will campaign for a “Yes” vote. Hardly an ideal negotiating position. He should have been stronger: “If we do not get a satisfactory deal I will campaign for the UK to leave”. But that might be a bit too confrontational.

[bazwillrun]

"He has already suggested that he feels able to get a deal that is in Britain’s interest "

will only be short term interests until the eussr get back everything and more that they may concede in these negotiations...which are no more than the eussr pandering to us to keep us quiet in the hopes they will butter us up to get us to stay and that is all they are interersted in...all they want is control of the uk, its as simple as that, always has and always will be....

[New Judge]

Absolutely 100% with you baz.

The EU cannot be trusted in any way. It has an overriding aim of "ever closer union" and that rules out any room for meaningful negotiations which will be lasting. The way to achieve certainty is for the UK to leave. I do not care one iota what "reforms" Mr Cameron tells us he has achieved. Nothing he could bring me (including the eradication of all disease, war and famine) would persuade me to vote "Yes". In fact he has a sligtly better chance of eradicating disease, war and famine than he has of achieving a lasting reform of the EU which would benefit the UK

[ichkeria]

I would have thought that it would be more reasonable to allow for dissent during the negotiations - but to toe the line after them
Of course if no agreement is reached then that is a different matter
But an agreement will be reached
That is more or less certain

[jourdain2]

I agree, bazwillrun and NJ.