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More Proof That We're All Migrants Whether We Like It Or Not!
There's been lots of debate in 2015 about Europe being swamped by migrants. Evidence is now backing up hypotheses that mass migration has been a regular, formative event.
Coming over here, bringing their farming and their bronze...... Media URL: http://popular-archaeology.com/issue/winter-2015-2016/article/scientists-sequence-first-ancient-irish-human-genomes
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Coming over here, bringing their farming and their bronze...... Media URL: http://popular-archaeology.com/issue/winter-2015-2016/article/scientists-sequence-first-ancient-irish-human-genomes
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Answers
There are many sides to this subject when it comes to discussing the current crisis, the way it is focussed on western Europe and reaction to it in these countries. I am not convinced that land mass or population density has much to do with any nation's ability to accept rising numbers of migrants in serious need of somewhere to stay. What does matter an awful lot...
14:52 Tue 29th Dec 2015
Not migrants but continental shelf movements determing different lifestyles
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OK, your point about metal smelting and farming, Mosaic. What are the new skills that today's migrants will be introducing to Europe?
Some clarity on your use of the word xenophobia, please: you wouldn't cite resistance to armed invasion as an example of it, would you?
Now, let's consider this remark:
"I'm idealistic (proud of that). Go for it, I don't mind, but it would be better discussion if you could put something into it instead of crying doom.
Like I have said, there isn't a generation that hasn't shared your belief that the world was about to collapse. Sometimes they were right. Often they weren't. "
Does that mean that you think settling a million refugees (largely unaccompanied Muslim males) in Europe - and that's this year alone - will have no bad effects on the host countries?
Some clarity on your use of the word xenophobia, please: you wouldn't cite resistance to armed invasion as an example of it, would you?
Now, let's consider this remark:
"I'm idealistic (proud of that). Go for it, I don't mind, but it would be better discussion if you could put something into it instead of crying doom.
Like I have said, there isn't a generation that hasn't shared your belief that the world was about to collapse. Sometimes they were right. Often they weren't. "
Does that mean that you think settling a million refugees (largely unaccompanied Muslim males) in Europe - and that's this year alone - will have no bad effects on the host countries?
Most "migrations" of the past were actually invasions. The strong overcoming the weak. For a relatively recent example, think of Native Americans - they would not have welcomed their fate at the hands of their incoming "migrants". The marauding invaders often had a technology advantage, e.g. rifles over bows and arrows. War is a well-known driver of technology,
Warrior invasions of the past are hardly a useful metaphor for modern-day migrations! A bit pointless to cite them, really ...
Warrior invasions of the past are hardly a useful metaphor for modern-day migrations! A bit pointless to cite them, really ...
But vetuste and ellipsis, think now....if the current wave of mass migration includes more people engaging in a different form of warfare.....isn't that technological change?
Tambo, how have you gone from continental shift to little england outburst so swiftly? How? Have I missed a middle step that you took to bridge the two?
Tambo, how have you gone from continental shift to little england outburst so swiftly? How? Have I missed a middle step that you took to bridge the two?
Ellipsis: there's huge debate about the role of warfare in the advancement of human development.
Time was, the fire-hardened spear was a mean bit of kit. Trench warfare was cutting-edge in 1870. the democratisation of technology means groups like the IRA, or IS, can do immense harm to distant enemies with comparatively little effort. So warfare has changed, alongside technology.
Time was, the fire-hardened spear was a mean bit of kit. Trench warfare was cutting-edge in 1870. the democratisation of technology means groups like the IRA, or IS, can do immense harm to distant enemies with comparatively little effort. So warfare has changed, alongside technology.
I can see that European migration introduced the horse and the gun to the native Americans, Mosaic. That's an answer of a sort to Ellipsis. But I can't see the relevance of that point to my two questions which are concerned with the current situation in Europe: what do we get out of it, and what are the downsides?
As you're an idealist (and "proud of it"), I understand it's important for you to be tolerant and kind, and to be seen as such. However, I think Mosaic's feeling good about himself may come at a cost which this particular xenophobic poster doesn't want to be burdened with.
As you're an idealist (and "proud of it"), I understand it's important for you to be tolerant and kind, and to be seen as such. However, I think Mosaic's feeling good about himself may come at a cost which this particular xenophobic poster doesn't want to be burdened with.
What a shame to have such an immature attitude to discussion Svejk. You're such a sore loser over the Assad thread!
Vetuste, lots of detailed illustration of the interplay between technology, warfare and change can be found in The Horse, The Wheel And Language by David W Anthony.....
Another useful source is Prof Jared Diamond, Guns, Germs and Steel.
I'm still fascinated that holding a different set of values renders a small number of AB members frothy with rage, to the point of making grandiose and palpably unsupported claims to represent a large body of opinion. Oh yeah, and pretty unpleasant too.
Still here though, not afraid of being called names by scaredy-cats online, demonstrably happy and actually quite clever. Got stifficates n everthin.
And thanks again Karl for holding a good discussion, and to Peter P for opening the batting.
Vetuste, lots of detailed illustration of the interplay between technology, warfare and change can be found in The Horse, The Wheel And Language by David W Anthony.....
Another useful source is Prof Jared Diamond, Guns, Germs and Steel.
I'm still fascinated that holding a different set of values renders a small number of AB members frothy with rage, to the point of making grandiose and palpably unsupported claims to represent a large body of opinion. Oh yeah, and pretty unpleasant too.
Still here though, not afraid of being called names by scaredy-cats online, demonstrably happy and actually quite clever. Got stifficates n everthin.
And thanks again Karl for holding a good discussion, and to Peter P for opening the batting.
Ellipsis asked are we at war. Ideally this should be on a separate thread, as my post is about the broad perspective on migration, technology and ethnicity.
However.
We ie taxpayers in Britain are funding air strikes on Syrian targets and we were until very recently sending troops into Afghanistan. Both of these were alongside NATO and aren't classified as war. But for me if it quacks like a duck....
So perhaps we are actually at war, just not saying so.
Like we don't refer to 'The Troubles' as civil war in Ireland buts that's what it was.
As with Ireland, so with the Middle East: highly effective methods of terrorising the opposition, especially using car bombs and suicide attacks against civilians, show an adaptation of technology to defeat an enemy.
I haven't invented that. It is how it is.
Incidentally these new technologies of terrorism were brewed in the mess that was the British Mandate, by Zionist terrorists / freedom fighters (use your preferred choice of description).
Why would stating these facts be equated with surrendering to anyone? I don't understand where Ellipsis got this from, but as Naomi says I need to answer her point in detail then I've obliged. Insh'allah.
On the other hand, swathes of recent advancements in the western world have been made by immigrants. At present many of the UK's top business entrepreneurs are from recent migrant families. Extrapolate this backwards through time, and you get the rounded picture of both the perceived and actual threats posed by migration especially mass migration, and the advantages to host cultures.
More detail can be had on request, with the greatest of pleasure.
However.
We ie taxpayers in Britain are funding air strikes on Syrian targets and we were until very recently sending troops into Afghanistan. Both of these were alongside NATO and aren't classified as war. But for me if it quacks like a duck....
So perhaps we are actually at war, just not saying so.
Like we don't refer to 'The Troubles' as civil war in Ireland buts that's what it was.
As with Ireland, so with the Middle East: highly effective methods of terrorising the opposition, especially using car bombs and suicide attacks against civilians, show an adaptation of technology to defeat an enemy.
I haven't invented that. It is how it is.
Incidentally these new technologies of terrorism were brewed in the mess that was the British Mandate, by Zionist terrorists / freedom fighters (use your preferred choice of description).
Why would stating these facts be equated with surrendering to anyone? I don't understand where Ellipsis got this from, but as Naomi says I need to answer her point in detail then I've obliged. Insh'allah.
On the other hand, swathes of recent advancements in the western world have been made by immigrants. At present many of the UK's top business entrepreneurs are from recent migrant families. Extrapolate this backwards through time, and you get the rounded picture of both the perceived and actual threats posed by migration especially mass migration, and the advantages to host cultures.
More detail can be had on request, with the greatest of pleasure.
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