Cleopatra skin color

[tucho58]

was Cleopatra's skin white since she descended from one of Alexander's general or not..any historical reference?

[shaneystar]

There is often a debate between Egyptologists and Afrocentric historians as to what race Cleopatra belonged to. Egyptologists say that Cleopatra was descended from the Ptolemaic dynasty, a Macedonian family, whose patriach Ptolemy I Soter was once a general for Alexander the Great. Ptolemy I was the son of Arsinoe of Macedonia by either her husband Lagus, a Macedonian nobleman, or her lover Philip II of Macedon.

Lots of info about her here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra

[mimififi]

is she not described in Antony and Cleopatra (taken from Plutarch, tho not an actual historic text I know) as being fair skinned; is that not why she allegedly bathed in ass's milk??? to keep her fair skin?

I don't really know, of course, I'd go with Shaney's site.....

[Drusilla]

As Shaneystar says, Cleopatra was descended from Ptolemy, who was one of Alexander the Greats generals. There have been claims that she was Nubian, particularly by an American lecturer, but there is no evidence to support this and frankly it has been condemned as fantasy.
It must be remembered that the cultural heritage of Egypt was also very different then, it being approximately 500 years before the Arab invasions which led to major changes in the ethnicity of the people of Egypt.
On a lighter note, there is evidence from Roman chroniclers that she was a big nosed redhead, who wasn't that attractive. We redheads like to claim her as one of our heroines, much like Boudicca. It's a shame red headed heroines tend towards suicide, though.

[jno]

Macedonians are mildly swarthy now, but who knows what they were like then? Having one 'white' ancestor needn't make you white, and not a lot is known about her other forebears. Contemporary sources may be accurate or they may be propaganda; contemporary paintings don't exist and would have changed colour if they did. Even words change meaning, so we can't be certain what 'red hair' means in a 2000-year-old text. (It covers a wide range of shades even now.) Best accept that we just don't know.

[Octavius]

The ancient Egyptians, like their modern descendants, were of varying complexions of color, from the light Mediterranean type (like Nefertiti), to the light brown of Middle Egypt, to the darker brown of Upper Egypt, to the darkest shade around Aswan and the First Cataract region, where even today, the population shifts to Nubian. In the Old Kingdom period (c. 2755-2230 B.C.E.), artistic canons governed the color for people shown in statuary, relief work and painting. Reddish brown was used for men, yellowish white for women.

By the Middle Kingdom, and certainly in the New Kingdom, the color strictures of this artistic canon partly gave way. Often in these periods, people were depicted with their actual skin color, men and women alike, and with distinctive facial features.

Some of the evidence used to support the claim of Cleopatra VII's alleged African (negro) roots come from Shakespeare. In Anthony and Cleopatra, Shakespeare called her "tawny." Other's claim this was a 17th-century way to describe mulattoes, and since Shakespeare obviously thought of her that way, she must have been. But the evidence of busts and reliefs from the Cleopatra's time period, don't seem to support the "black" image.

Her genealogy is confused through history and she did apparently marry one of her own brothers. Ptolemy I was a general to Alexandra the Great and if you can work it out by clicking up the links (I got confused) he may well have been her great great great great granddad, or uncle, or sister or something...

http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/Egypt/ptolemies/cleopatra_vii.htm#Cleopatra.06

[Tatty Rollox]

... and here she is so that we can judge for ourselves ....

[jno]

so, sort of orange then, Tatty?

[Octavius]

I have to disagree. Cleopatra VII as shown on this coin minted during her reign was actually a kind of grey in colour and had a big nose and a big chin. Any Roman influence in design is purely coincidental to the times......

http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/egypt/cleopatra_VII/Svoronos_1160.1-o.jpg

[LordyGeordie]

It doesn't answer your question about the skin colour but with reference to the posts about ehr hair colour, i seem to remember reading somewhere that in cleopatra's time it was fashionale for men and women of all classes to shave their heads and wear wigs.

nobility like cleopatra would have had proper human hair wigs made, but peasants often used animal hair or even straw. so in fact it wouldn't have been possible to tell what her hair colour was.

[Tatty Rollox]

...... in those days it was usual for the upper classes to have a couple of gin and myrrh's with their kouskous and marmalade, jno, which probably accounts for the orange glow. Later, when Octavius (or, as he was called then Octaviun) put the fear of Nut up her, she clasped a kinky asp ( whose colour can be seen here) who made a play for her bosom causing Cleopatra to change colour as can be seen here. Octavius is wrong about his coin, it is the new 2p piece which we shall hear about next week with a silhouette of Cherie in place of the Queen.