the truth

[crazie]

was there a jesus.... did he exist????

[Ethel]

Yes

[bobclean]

Almost cetainly, yes. No supernatural powers, though...just a human being like everyone else

[jno]

almost certainly. There are no records of him from his lifetime, but that is true of almost everyone in those days. It seems unlikely that the religion which grew after his death could have been based on a person who didn't even exist.

[CLOWN TICKLE]

Yes

[jno]

actually, Jesus will turn the other cheek

[Clanad]

jno... as usual, I may have to disagree with you. One of the finest historical records in existence, anywhere in the world, especially from an era nearly 2000 years ago attests in detail to the existence of Jesus. If it weren't for the materials religious conotations, there would be no disagreement that the factual historical information is first class when compared to any other writing of similar historocity. There are no scholars that I'm aware of that doubt Yeshua's historical existence in a given time and place. If the same quality of information were presented about any historical figure of that or other ancient time it would be accorded the highest esteem for content and relativity to the setting... in my opinion...

[jno]

I just said from his lifetime Clanad! I know there's a good deal of material from soon after his death (though as I posted on another thread recently, the gap does give some pause for thought).

[Narolines]

There were loads of Jesuses - it was a very common name (well, the Semitic original, bearing in mind that "Jesus" is a Latinisation). Still is in some countries, as a matter of fact......

[shammydodger]

"Historicity"?

[Clanad]

Thanks for catching that,shammydodger! The results of the "i" being in such proximity to the "o" or my three fingered approach to keyboarding...
Sorry, jno, I certainly meant no confrontation... It's just that, as already stated, such a wealth of historical data in any other setting wouldn't be a suspect as this particular subject is. By the way, the latest dating of aspects of the Book of Mark clearly indicate and authorship as early as before AD 20. And as I've pointed out in an earlier exchange, certain passages clearly indicate reference toearlier material. Additionally, a studies of the oral transmission of historically important indicate, even as is true today in certain cultures, the accurate, detailed telling and retelling of factual events is and was an acceptable, respected method of spreading information. I can't stress enough the lack of refutation by the Jewish authorities. An ossuary containing the remains of the Chief Priest, Caiaphas, was discovered by archaeologists in 1990 in a family tomb in Abu Tor, two miles south of Jerusalem. The name enscribed in Aramaic on the side of the stone box is Joseph Caiaphas , the same as referenced by Josephus in his writing The Annals. The ossuary is assumed to be genuine... Caiaphas remained Chief Priest until about AD35 or 36 and would have had the opportunity to refute the events, but the writings are silent...
Finally, I'm not sure what your point is Narolines...

[Clanad]

... Tired fingers... the Mark reference should read AD40, only 7 years or so following the events...

[jno]

wow... you did have my eyes popping with your reference to 20 AD Clanad... any online coverage of the 40AD dating? I'd be interested to see it. Thanks in advance.

[jake-the-peg]

There's quite a discussion on the dating of Mark here:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09674b.htm
under place and date of composition.

I think Clannads "clearly shows" is a bit much - This actually seems to be quite a hotly debated area.

[soozmac]

yes, he is still alive and well and teaching Aerobic Latino at Portobello Swimming Pool leisure centre on Fridays from 6:00 - 7:30pm.

Don't believe me?

http://www.edinburghleisure.co.uk/control/file s/doc_011338portobello.pdf

[Imp y Celyn]

i am not disputing any of the above, but the ossuary referred to above was declared genuine by the bloke lamaire who found it wasn't it? i remain sceptical about this, especially as no bones were found in the box, so carbon dating couldn't be carried out.

i don't think we wil ever find the truth. jesus was not a prominent governmental leader. he was just a preacher, with few possessions, and who suffered the death of a common outlaw. it is unlikely that the romans would have recorded his life or death with an inscription or statue. and who is to say that the james mentioned is the biblical one?

i certainly wish there as more and wished i could believe this latest finding, but the only real evidence we have (so far) is the written eye witness accounts in the gospel. isnit.

[Cobra.]

He was a spiritualist NOT son of a god.

[pugwashjw]

Our information about Jesus comes from the Bible. And 2 Timothy 3;16 ,17says "16�All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17�that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.
Anhd it takes FAITH to put the two together and know it is true. That Jesus DID exist and bought back for us the right to live without death. Revelation 21;4

[pugwashjw]

Yes. He did exist. Jesus is God's son and was sent by God to earth to 'buy back;' for us the right to no longer have to die, but to live forever. Death was not in god's original plan for man. Adam and Eve brought it on by disobedience. It will be removed. Revelation 21;4. 4�And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.�
And when we no longer die, then where will we live?
Psalm 37;(Psalm 37:9-12) For evildoers themselves will be cut off, But those hoping in Jehovah are the ones that will possess the earth. 10�And just a little while longer, and the wicked one will be no more; And you will certainly give attention to his place, and he will not be. 11�But the meek ones themselves will possess the earth, And they will indeed find their exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. 12�The wicked one is plotting against the righteous one, And at him he is grinding his teeth.
(Psalm 37:29) The righteous themselves will possess the earth, And they will reside forever upon it.
(Psalm 37:34) Hope in Jehovah and keep his way, And he will exalt you to take possession of the earth. When the wicked ones are cut off, you will see [it].