devil`s origin

[Redheadthere]

was satan cast out of heaven when he was called lucifer, or was he just made as an evil tempter for Adam and Eve?

[dot.hawkes]

Satan was cast out of heaven after Adam and Eve were created, because God said the Creation was still "very good" on day 6 after man had been created.

[cymrudiamond]

Redheadthere, maybe this will help- satan was cast out of Heaven because he wanted to userp God's authority..it's found in the book of Isaiah, chapter 14,verses 12-15. In verse 12, he is being referred to as,' Lucifer,son of the morning.' Not to be patronising,this is found in the Old Testament..I didn't know if you knew that..some people don't. Cheers

[Cetti]

I like that dot......very profound :-D

To add just a bit to cymrudiamond answer. It was when he was called Lucifer that he made his heavenly exit. At that time he was very close to God and I have heard in a sermon somewhere that he was the leader of the heavenly choir. So he was not just anybody but a very important part of the hierarchy. But he wanted much more,he became proud, pride being a sin, no sin in heaven....so he was kicked out along with his followers, the demons,to roam the earth causing every bad thing that's ever happened to mankind ...until the appointed time when he will be no more.

There is a passage in Luke10 v 18 where Jesus says " I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

[Tatty Rollox]

...... and God is telling Lucifer to leave at http://tinyurl.com/q4rg4 ......

[Cetti]

Tatty, your timing and your picture as always - is perfect!

[DaSwede]

Non serviam is a neat phrase to know: I will not serve.

[Tatty Rollox]

Nice to hear from you, Cetti. I hope that you are very well.

[Redheadthere]

thanks ,dot.hawkes, i`ve seen that in the bible but have often asked " If GOD had thrown the devil out of heaven instead of dealing with him for rebelling in heaven. what chance did Adam and Eve have of resisting him"?

[Tatty Rollox]

..... enter Adam and Eve at http://tinyurl.com/qywku ...

[Redheadthere]

Thanks Cymrudiamond. i understand why you think its patronising but its ok .

my only question is ( well, not my only question but one many) If sin can be found in heaven because it developed in the heart of "lucifer", it doesn`t put God in a very good light does it?

let me look at it this way; if "HEAVEN IS A HOLY PLACE AND SIN CAN NOT ENTER THEREIN" How did it enter into "lucifer`s "heart to sin?

There is a school of thought that suggests that this "lucifer was never in heaven as an angel of light at all but he has always been satan as made by GOD to play his part in man`s fall and to carry out GOD`S plan of redemption of mankind.

also why would GOD throw him out to earth to decieve man instead of "dealing with him there and then so that he couldnt spoil God plan for a pefrect world?

[Tatty Rollox]

.... and at http://tinyurl.com/s6e2r we have St Michael the Archangel triumphing over Lucifer - O God, who made blessed Michael, Your Archangel, victorious over the proud Lucifer and all the wicked spirits, we beseech You that, combating under the Cross and ever adopting his maxim, "Who is like unto God," we may be victorious over all our enemies, and be delivered from all evils. Regulate our lives according to Your will and commandments. Through Jesus Christ, our Lord. Amen - ...

[Ellie-Kay]

The question posed presumes the existence of a devil in the first place.

Whilst truly not wishing to offend anyone, I personally find it very hard to believe in the existence of a devil - or indeed God - so my answer is 'neither'.

[Jim897]

Sorry - the above attributed to Ellie-Kay should have been me (mixup with sign-in)

[RATTER15]

So why is it that in that picture of Adam and Eve they have belly buttons

[Jim897]

Adam and Eve are characters created by the story tellers of old. Most free thinking informed individuals, unencumbered by the fog of religious doctrine, appreciate that humans existed on this planet a long, long time before these two mythical characters, hence why they have belly buttons (I don't really understand the significance of the above posting...).

The creation of the entity known as the devil is also a mythical, fictional character. Future evolved humans may well look back upon us humans of today with such sadness at how we worshiped all these gods and things, and slaughtered each other with such zeal in pursuit of our religious affiliations, just as we today look back at the sun-worshipers etc of the past as being �primitive�. We have hardly evolved!

[Redheadthere]

thanks for your contributuion Jim. i posted the original question in the hope it would get different kinds of response. many others disagree with you as they have a reason to believe in God and have a faith.

[pugwashjw]

Satan was in existence when Adam and Eve disobeyed [ ate the fruit] At Genesis 3;15 God himself states that there will be conflict between Satans 'seed' and God's 'seed' called in the Bible, the woman. Satan was not always bad, but was created an angel along with all the other angels. But he wanted worship due only to God. And in seeking it, he became Satan.
Satan was only cast out of heaven when Jesus was King of God's "Kingdom" . This happened in 1914.
How, then, is the time calculated down to 1914? Counting 2,520 years from early October of 607 B.C.E. brings us to early October of 1914 C.E., as shown on the chart.
CALCULATING THE �SEVEN TIMES�
�Seven times� = 7 X 360 = 2,520 years
A Biblical �time,� or year = 12 X 30 days = 360. (Rev. 11:2, 3; 12:6, 14)
In the fulfillment of the �seven times� each day equals one year. (Ezek. 4:6; Num. 14:34)
Early October, 607 B.C.E., to December 31, 607 B.C.E.= 1/4 year
January 1, 606 B.C.E., to December 31, 1 B.C.E. = 606 years
January 1, 1 C.E., to December 31, 1913 = 1,913 years
January 1, 1914, to early October, 1914 = 3/4 year
Total: 2,520 years
607 B,C,E, is the date that the word to rebuild Jerusalem 'went forth'. Daniel 9;25�And you should know and have the insight [that] from the going forth of [the] word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Mes�si�ah [the] Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks. She will return and be actually rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in the straits of the times.

[Redheadthere]

pugwash, thats hogwash. dont believe the hype. God never ever makes mistake therefore if he made the Devil HE made him to be BAD. not once good and then BAD

[cymrudiamond]

Redhead, just re-visited some of the threads I had been involved with and saw this. At the time, the other contributors of answers weren't known to me. Interesting on others' views. Sounds like you're a person of faith. I have loads of 'unanswered' questions too. I'm okay and very comfortable with these 'unknowns', because God is truly .'perfect in all His ways, and righteous in all of His judgements.' Still, I wish I knew the answers to some of these questions. It doesn't bother me a whit that scoffers don't believe in God because they can't see or know everything..and it doesn't concern me that scoffers think that people who have a personal relationship with the Living God are somehow,'weak, mentally-challenged, or less-than.' Best wishes in your quest to find answers!

[Redheadthere]

cymrudiamond, I completely forgot about that question, after all it was over 2 years ago. Thanks for revisiting it.

I think I originally asked it to generate a debate. Then, as now, I had my own answer and just wanted to see what others thought.

Being bought up in church from the year dot I had traditional beliefs and is also used to scoffers. If you yourself wish to find out more than 100s of years of traditional church teaching which I believe was taught to keep the masses in order, you could do worse than look around this very page. If you have the same one as me, about half way down, there`s an article entitled; "satan never was lucifer". Check that out!