Who policed the nation?

[samuel23]

Who policed the nation before the police force came into being? I know that there were the 'Revenue' men who had the main task of catching smugglers, and that the army were often used in cases of civil unrest, but what if I were in the 16th c. and I stole a loaf of bread? Who would have been given the task of tracking me down and bringing me to justice (always presuming that the baker didn't get me first)? thinking back even further, say into the early 14th c. whose job was it then?

[blondebird]

There were parish constables that were paid from the parish rate and any felons were apprehended by them or the militia and taken to the local manor court or magistrates court to be dealt with, if it was a more serious crime the justices of the Peace in the Magistrates court could send them to the Crown Court for sentencing.

[samuel23]

Thanks blondebird. I must have missed that bit when we did history - or maybe I was asleep or messin about. How far back in time were there these constables? Did they have any other powers, such as the right to search homes etc? If so did they need a search warrant, or is that a modern day idea?
I'm probably going to sound thick, but if I were like robin hood, who was basically an olden day anarchic theif and terrorist, and I kept quiet about what I had done, moved around a lot and wore a mask when I was robbing the rich, who would have been out looking for me and how would they have co-ordinated with other areas?

[blondebird]

It is a myth that people could wander betwen parishes, if u didn't have the right settlement and passport across parish boundaries and could prove who you were, where u were settled and how u could support yoursell, you were escorted to the parish boundary and handed over to the next parish constable until you were resettled in your own parish, usually your parish of birth.
If you stole a loaf of bread in the 16th century you would probably be put in gaol and left to rot. stealing anothr man's food, produce or property was a very serious crime, not alot of people actually had money, their wealth was thier immediate property.
A group of parishioners under the leadership of a Parish constable could be summoned to support him in his duties, they were often rate payers who would feel personally violated if one of their neighbours was robbed or wronged.

[violetblue]

Sorry to digress, blondebird, but is that where the saying 'Hanged for a sheep' came from? Your answers were very intersting.

[saxy_jag]

Not sure when, but there was also the tradition of waites groups. These were basically groups of singers who would would wander around the town doing their stuff of an evening, but also served the function of night watchmen.

[blondebird]

yes sam that is exactly where it originates, there wer hangings for what in the last century or so would have seemed trivial, but if you stole from someone who had very little, like maybe a few sheep, then you were deemed to be threatening to starve that person, and it was very serious. I do think there is a little bit of that ideology with us today, how many times have you heard of someone being jailed for 15 years for theft or defrauding, but 15 months for rape?
nightwatchmen were the poorest supported and underpaid group, they were ill equipt to deal with the bad weather they had to enjure and they were often taken seriously ill with work related problems like pnuemonia. The ************* were working in the 19thC with the police forces and some of them were promoted to police constables.
I have heard of a case where a farmer rigged his barn with a system of tin plates on twine as he was losing produce, this trap managed to ensnare the culprits and they were sent to gaol and one was deported.

[blondebird]

The sentences were severe to act as a deterrent, and so the person committing the crime would think, why steel a lamb, why not steal a sheep, if I get away with it great, if I don't they'll hang me anyway, so may as well risk the bigger prise.

[blondebird]

sorry Violet should have addressed u there,

the idea that society was freely moving around the country is wrong and it is very interesting to see how much control there was, most of it by the Church but some of it by the masons.

The Parish was the providor of food, clothing, and shelter for the poor, to get this the poor had to attend Church twice on a Sunday, they could only recieve alms from their Settlement Parish as I said above, and could not find settlement anywhere else unless they were employed and able to provide for themselves, this meant very little migration until the Industrial years of the mid - late 1700s when many poor people from southern parishes were recruited by the large mills openeing in the Nother Counties. This was the first major displacement of English people and it was a massive shift in population.

[Grunty]

On the occasions that the parish officials, including the parish constables, could not cope, the local magistrate would call on the army to help. The army had the same major problem that armies have now - they were trained to kill and this was not the best course of action. As an example, the army were called to deal with an unruly crowd in St Peter's Fields, Manchester. As the Battle of Waterloo was fresh in people's minds, this incident was called Peterloo, or the Peterloo Massacre. There must be plenty on Google, and it would be interesting to anyone who recites 'police brutality' in modern Britain.