wwii

[bird_81]

When and why did WWII end? I have to teach this to my year 6 class. Thanks.

[jno]

noxlumos, I'm impressed by the history curriculum you learnt (and by the way you've taken on teaching your own family); the history I learnt was nothing like as complete, and I don't know what the norm in British schools is today - I've been told it's basically Tudors and Nazis, but that may be an exaggeration.

You're quite right about using the internet being normal today - but that it seems to me is exactly what this question is all about. AnswerBank is part of the internet, after all. It's not the equivalent of a book, with facts and figures listed, nor a sort of wikipedia which also lists facts and figures but to which anyone can contribute. It's an interactive place where you can come with specific questions to ask and hope to get some answers.

I don't see any reason why teachers shouldn't use it the same as anyone else. Presumably if bird_81 hadn't said she was a teacher she would have got some less fiery responses. I don't know why she didn't learn about WW2 at school as (I imagine) most people today do, but my guess would be that she was learning about something else instead, as I was.

[JamesEverton]

I think it's fair enough to be shocked that a teacher doesn't know the answer to this question. It's not reasonable to expect teachers to know everything but this is pretty basic.

jno wouldn't you be a bit worried if a teacher was on AB asking if anyone knew how to do long division because they needed to teach it to their pupils?

[bird_81]

Everybody has to start somewhere. Is it really wrong to want to find out about things and be well prepared to teach. Obviously, noxlumos, you have all the answers to everything. I have not been teaching for years like you, in fact I have not yet qualified, so what do you expect from me, i'm learning. I thought i'd get some general info from AB'ers before I researched. Were you this educated when you started to teach, I don't think so, and as for you covering all history topics, I didn't in school, maybe this is why I got into teaching, to raise the standard, although you seem to think that by asking a question on somethiing I would like to find out about is not good practice as a teacher and you should automatically know the answer. Yes, I had an idea of why it ended but wanted the views of other people, isn't this what the answerbank is all about?

[teddybon]

Noxlumos- thank you for expressing your dismay in a clear and eloquent manner. Your children are fortunate to have a teacher who cares- YOU. There are many gifted teachers in the school system but they are often in the best schools, if you do not live near a good school you have difficult decisions to make.
Bird 81 has hopefully been given something to think about by you,me and Dot. Teaching is not an easy option and year 6 is a hard year to teach so Bird 81 will need to be fully prepared in future.I do wish her well and know that if she has the best interests of her class at heart she will succeed.

[bird_81]

Thanks for all the advice. Teddy, I'm glad we can try and draw this disasterous thread to a close on a civil note.

[jno]

ask away, bird: that is indeed what AB is all about.

To JamesEverton: as I said in an earlier post, I think there's a distinction to be drawn between maths/science and other subjects like history. In maths you learn simple procedures first, then use them to study more complex ones. Long division really is a 'basic' matter: get it wrong and you'll get everything wrong that comes afterwards.

With things like history, there are no 'basic' matters. You can know all about the middle ages, and nothing about WW2, and still be a good historian. The nearest thing to 'basic' would actually be older, rather than more recent, events: the Roman occupation had more profound effects on our society, over 2000 years, than winning WW2. It may be that we can't even understand WW2 without knowing that Britain was part of the Roman empire and Germany wasn't.

So I don't think 1945 is basic, and I'm not alarmed if bird doesn't know about it, and it doesn't mean she'll be a bad teacher. If people must rate her, do so on the basis of how she teaches children - not on the basis of how her teachers taught her.

[noxlumos]

Jno, the second world war was probably THE single most important event in the whole of the 20th Century, it will have invariably directly affected people that bird_81 has come into contact with, and it's not basic?
Bird_81,No-one expects anyone to know everything, and I am not a professional teacher, although we do home school our kids. I understand that you have to start somewhere, but WW2 is so basic and fundamental that the effect it had on your own family will have shaped who you are, yet you know nothing about it. This is not about what you can learn from books even, you can look anything up so the whole thing is almost academic,but about your own thirst for knowledge.
I am very exacting when it comes to teaching staff as I really believe that it is the most imprtant job on the planet, and I think that teachers need to have a thirst for knowledge almost for it's own sake in order to have the amount of enthusiasm required to adequately teach.
A good teacher is priceless, a bad one needs keeping as far away from kids as possible. If I seemed harsh I apologise and I really do wish you well in your chosen career.

[jno]

I'm being fairly careful about how I've defined 'basic', noxlumos. But from a historian's point of view, the most important event of the 20th century is no more (or less) significant than the most important event of the 13th century.

And the 20th century really is history. If bird was born in 1981 as her username suggests, not only will she not have lived through the war, her parents probably didn't either. So a fairer comparison might be: how much do you (or I) know about our grandparents' lives? How did the first world war affect their lives? In my case, I really don't know; when they were alive, I didn't think to ask them.

I'm not going to belabour bird by posting on this thread again; I've found it interesting to read people's views but I think many are being harsh when they expect bird to know everything they know themselves. Much as the tabloids like to summon up the war with pictures of people in tin hats yelling 'Achtung!', I think WW2 is receding into history; younger people simply aren't as interested in it as their parents and grandparents think they ought to be. The world has moved on.

[anotheoldgit]

I posted the question below on 29/08/06, and I have been waiting for the true answer since.This Year 6 class Teacher has now convinced me of the answer, it is not the kids it's the teachers. And it would appear they know very little of the few periods of history they do try and focus on.
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Why do most children leave school now without very much knowledge of history. When I was at school many years ago, we were taught history from the ancient Brits to the present time. This took us through all the Kings & Queens of England, the period they lived through, along with dates of historic events and famous people of the times. Now they seem to only focus on one or two periods of our vast history.

anotheoldgit Tue 29/08/06 12:02

[Mikeyd2]

Anyway try on here and good luck .....

http://www.worldwar2database.com/html/japansur render.htm

[anotheoldgit]

noxlumos Perhaps that mangy old tramp sitting in the corner of your pub, most likley lived through WW2, so he would know eh ?

[anotheoldgit]

All very gallant of you jno to stick up for her, but even if she knows sod all about history, she obviously knows the basics of Information Technology, (a little more than just switching the computer on). If so the first principle of finding information on the Web is to use a search engine, and not to use a forum such as AB, which is a very useful site to find an answer to a question, but not a subject.

[noxlumos]

Actually the "mangy old tramp" is one of the nicest, sincerest of people I have ever met and his knowledge of pretty much everything ( even after 10 pints of cider) is pretty damned comprehensive, but then maybe that's because he didn't go to one. Lol.
Not enough interesting mangy old tramps about in my opinion:)

[shammydodger]

A salient lesson to be learnt: don't judge somebody just because they were born later than you. That's not their fault.

There can be more than one reason that someone doesn't know something thatu (the poster) does. And, if you are knocking on 70, you are more likely to know it. Unless it is concerned with the current pop charts. Give people a break.