Independence

[slimjim]

Following on from the previous question, could an area of the UK declare independence if the majority of the residents wanted it. Many of us have probably seen the old Ealing Comedy but would it actually be allowable. Would the Government claim that the land is theirs regardless of want the people want? Could my street (14 houses) just declare independence if we wanted? Not certain what difference it would make; we would all still work in the UK and pay UK taxes but I fancy the idea of having a seat in the UN and telling Tony Blair to remove his forces from our borders (we live near a nuclear weapons base).

[Samedibee]

Could someone write a book about something like this? I would love to but i know it would end up really crap and i am only 16 but there could be a success story in here somewhere, i can see it now, about a street that had their own independance and politely asked tony blair to remove his forces from their borders or risk war, hehe, sorry :>, hope i've inspired someone to write this book, as i could never.

[SuzeB]

If its not the Scottish National Party have been wasting their time. At the moment Scotland are somewhere closer to the second part of your question. We've got our own Parliament, pay UK taxes and, yes, many of ask what difference it's made.

[DOB]

The key to gaining independence is to get the larger nations of the world (US, UK, France, China, etc) to recognise you as an independent nation. Then all other countries will effectively fall in behind these and you can then be President of Baker St or wherever you live.

[bernardo]

It's a combination of three things:

(1) a law being passed by the parliament of the larger nation to allow independence for a part of it - e.g. Scotland (or your 14 houses) would become independent if the Westminster Parliament allowed it. This would only be likely to happen if the wishes of the inhabitants had been ascertained at a serious level (e.g. a referendum - but there would be a need for a law to be passed in the first place to enable a referendum) rather than a frivial whim or short-term protest

(2) International recognition by other countries or by the UN etc.

(3) Secession by a constituent state from a federation (e.g. a Soviet republic leaving the USSR or an American state leaving the USA)

The ideal situation would be from a combination of the three factors, but it is not necessary for there to be all threee in all cases.

One example which failed was the "independence" of the "tribal homelands" of Bophuthatswana, Transkei, Ciskei and Thingamyjig - this was enacted by South Africa (number 1) but failed because it was not accepted or recognised by other countries (2).

The independence of Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia-Hercegovina in 1992 happened as a result of a combination of (2) and (3) (they were recognised by the EU in April 1992).

East Timor was a combination of (1) and (2); Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were an example of all three after decades of resistance from number 1.

The extent to which the three factors are necessary depend on the circumstances - if an area is being oppressed by a dictatorial regime with no opportunity for a democratic election or referendum, then (2) is more likely to prevail against the wishes of (1); but if Acacia Avenue in Luton wants to be independent then it is not likely to get (3) because it already has access to the democratic process within (1).

[bernardo]

P.S. Thingamyjig = Venda

[jenstar]

In other words, freedom and thr right to self-determination is a lie. The only escape is suicide.

[ludwig]

You couldn't do it. In the UK we're subjects of the queen not citizens. If your street declared independence it would be an act of treason, which I think still carries the death sentence (or is that a myth - not sure).

[jenstar]

Treason doesn't carry the death penalty anymore. It did until about 1998, though.

[humming bird]

You have to look at your constitution, I don't have it. Australia has seen one succession..the Hutt River province and another was planned. Just a bloody joke really, who wins? That Scotland has been released to at least have its own Parliament might give some legal leads for you or at least some fascinating reading as the issues would have been discussed in the Parliament. It is most unlikely that a street could secceed from a district. Such possibility would make the place a shambles and likey commence civil wars forever.Our so called "democratic" systems are geared to maintaining serfdom and do so very well. Your power in electing governments is well thwarted and the essential control is not with "the people". You are no longer subjects of the Queen in practise as Parliament reigns although token respect is given in getting "maam's" signature here and there. The monarchy under Stuarts (Steward..servers of the people" ) though maligned were descendants of the great European House and one huge advantage of benevolent and intelligent Royalty, part of a great house, is that, if and only if, it vows to serve the people..and does so...you would have more input.In the meantime protest all you can, support greenpeace and groups trying to change direction, work solidly and decently on your local member of parliament and various unions. If you want a better world in UK start by resisting the new world order and the evangelistic crusade presently in force. Best of all give good example and insist on it down the line. No seccession will be necessary and even if you succeeded, shift the nuclear base..mate no chance and you'd find life hell!...and who'd fund your operations? Dead loss..make the world a better place some other way.. cheers

[Relayer]

On holiday in the Isle of Man, I asked a local about their position. Apparently they could gain independence if the majority wished it. One major reason for not doing so is the easy access to the NHS on the mainland - to set up a hospital with all the major services available would cost too much. An interesting condidate for independence based on historic precedence would be Berwick-upon-Tweed. It was mentioned seperately to England and Scotland in Acts of Parliament until the 1850s and never fully became part of Northumberland till 1974!