Conqurers or liberators?

[123everton]

Were the Russians viewed as liberators by the Poles during WW2?
With the exception of probably Warsaw did the Poles welcome the Soviets with garlands of flowers etc?

[Octavius]

Given the history of active hostility between the two nations it is unlikely.

Whilst generally considered �warm�, reception by the Poles was indignant to say the least. Of course, whilst liberation from the Nazis was deliverance from tyranny, Stalin bought about a new form of oppression, and The Katyn Massacre was still recent history in the minds of many Poles, as was the 1939 invasion.

The Home Army launched a rebellion against German garrisons in the capital in 1944 anticipating imminent Red Army assistance. But the Soviets halted their advance just short of Warsaw, allowing the Germans to crush it.

Soon after, the liberation, the population was virtually forced into a plebiscite and the Lublin Committee was established and controlled by Stalin�s Red Army, whilst the Polish government in exile were declared illegitimate. Any existing Polish officials were quickly dismissed and replaced by Soviet substitutes.

Stalin�s "hesitant" approach to Warsaw in the lead up to the invasion/liberation was seen as an intentional strategy to eliminate the non-communist Polish resistance forces, thus paving the way for complete Communist control.

[Trott]

No, the Russians and Pols hated each other. Not least because of the mass grave of Polish officers found, these officers had been killed by the Russians. If your asking where they relived about Russian liberation then they were probably 50/50, both Russians and Germans were unwelcome by the Pols

[123everton]

Thanks to both of you.
I am aware of the enmity between the Poles and the Soviets not least due to the Polish Soviet war of 1919 to 1921 the Soviets themselves were still rankled by the actions of the second Polish republic as (if memory serves) Katyn was chosen as it marked the site of a great Soviet defeat in that conflict.
Britain was fully aware of the antipathy felt by both sides Chamberlain remarked in his diary "I don't know which the Poles fear most, invasion from Germany or liberation by Russia."
But is there any record of Soviet troops being welcomed by the Poles?
They are fellow Slavs and the Nazis were very VERY cruel occupiers as roughly 1 in 5 Poles died under German occupation.
Or was the general consensus one of same sh1t, different shovel?
A link would be very welcome.

[Octavius]

For Anna, another Polish woman, who vividly remembers the arrival of the Red Army, the phrase" liberation by the Russians" always sounded hollow.

"I was in the east of Poland, and we had a very bad experience with the Russians [referring to 1939]. My father had three strokes because of them. I felt very disappointed. We thought that the Americans would walk in or the Brits, but it was the Russians. And I said 'Oh no, not again' .We thought that Poland would be free, but of course the Russians arrived and everything went back to what it was before when they occupied Poland."

[jno]

At the same time, an active Polish insurgency continued to fight against the Germans in Warsaw and throughout western Poland. The Allies had limited success in their efforts to airdrop supplies and other means of support to these insurgents. The Soviet government refused to assist in these airdrops and even actively discouraged them, claiming that they would have negligible effect on the war and were a waste of time. However, as the Red Army made its way deeper into Poland, Stalin�s intentions became clearer, as reports surfaced in the West that Soviets �liberating� Polish territory were actually arresting members of the Polish insurgency in large numbers.

That comes from here

http://www.sparknotes.com/history/european/ww2 /section12.rhtml

and so is probably basic stuff you know already

[Huderon]

My wife's mother (a Pole) would never talk much about the war, mostly just saying "it was terrible". But I did learn from her tat the Russian soldiers had a VERY bad reputation (robbery, rape and all that kind of thing) so certainly would not have been welcomed as "liberators".

[123everton]

Huderon hopefully your mother is still with us, it may be of great interest to the world if you could get her to record her experiences.
Certainly Russian troops were promised 4 days of looting in Warsaw during the Polish/Soviet war but i've not come across widespead (any in fact) instances of rape etc. by soviet troops in the east, any evidence of this would be greatly appreciated.

[Huderon]

er ... No my mother-in-law is no longer with us, nor, sadly, are most of the other relatives who lived through the war. It is possible that the robbery and rape stuff was all rumour, but based on what little she did say, the Poles detested the Russians even more than the did the Germans.

We do know that MIL came from an area where there were a fair number if Jews before the war (she spoke Yiddish, as we discovered after she died). We are also fairly sure that she had some kind of nursing training during the war, but never could get her to tell us the details.

We also know that her father (who died many years before I met her) slipped away to live in the forest when the Germans arrived because he knew he would be conscripted by them. He did come out of hiding when the Germans threatened to kill his family and wound up in some kind of Polish batallion fighting (very reluctantly) for the Germans. He, along with some of his friends, surrendered to the Americans at the earliest opportunity, and eventually wound up over here.

It would have been good to learn their stories, but it's no longer possible, and the few people we know who did live through the war are very reluctant to talk about it.

[Octavius]

Everton, it certainly went on in Germany, it could be that they suppressed any official records of it in Poland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Army_atrociti es#Rapes_and_pacifications

[123everton]

Huderon I realised my mistake by calling her your Mother as soon as I'd posted (sorry) what you've said here is of great interest to me (I love apophrical history) and much appreciated.
Octavius, thanks I am well aware of the terrible behaviour by Soviet troops once they entered Germany.
I would'nt seek to condone or excuse their assaults but from what I've learnt, the events in Berlin, I know there were numerous others but Berlin is well documented, paled into insignifance when compared to their behaviour in the wild east.
Orador Sur Glane (France) is the only reference we have for this attitude and Orador was repeated over and over and over again in the German retreat from the east, and in the advance for that matter.
It must be hard to see village after village whose people have been raped, robbed and murdered (especially the punishment battallions in the vanguard) to restrain that anger (especially in the context of their own loss) and express it most vilely.
It is recorded that many Soviet soldiers wept and prayed over the corpses of dead women, it takes all sorts I suppose.
The German John Rabe wrote a short but fascinating account of the time in his book "The Good German Of Nanking" although ostensibly about the rape of Nanking by the Japanese, it does touch on the Soviet invasion later on.
I have to warn you though, it's not for the squeamish.