Operation Torch

[123everton]

Why were'nt De Gaulle's Free French troops used to retake Algiers?

[Lonnie]

I don't know for certain, but I would think maybe, because Churchill didn't trust them.
He certainly didn't trust or like their leader, De Gaulle.

[jake-the-peg]

Maybe it was mutual, after all Churchill ordered the Royal Navy to attack the French Fleet with the result that a thousand French Seamen were killed.

Weren't Vichy forces holding Algiers? Sending French troops to fight other French troops doesn't sound a good idea

[123everton]

Free French troops were supposedly comitted to the war, De Gaulle was no fan of Vichy, would Vichy forces have fired upon Free French troops?
Such an act would be tantamount to treason. This would have given us the opportunity to retake the area with the minimum waste of blood and ammo.
The reason I mention this is because I saw the end of a show on the "Yesterday" channel that discussed it.
I found the spectacle De Gaulling (could'nt resist that pun, sorry) of crowds rounding up collaborators whilst the very cause of their liberation had been resisted by the troops they now ignored.
Typical French?
When there's a fight on they run away only to return in time to shave all the women's heads.
"To drive the enemy out we must fire upon our homeland, this is is the price of liberty" Admiral Jaujard on D-Day, so if that's how they viewed D-Day why the fuss over Mers El Kebir, or do the French only mourn the loss of their soldiers?
Or are civilians viewed as fair game?

[jake-the-peg]

Sorry I hadn't realised your 'question' was simply an opportunity to start a piece of the mindless national stereotyping we see to often on here.

You might like to reflect that at Bir Hakeim the Free French held out against the Afrika Corp whilst for over two weeks whilst the retreating British Eigth army reorganised

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bir_Hak eim

No shaving of women heads was recorded

[123everton]

JTP there was a round up of the "collaborators" in Algiers, but not (unless you know better) amongst the erstwhile "defenders", why?
On a lighter note I am willing to give the French credit were it's due, it's just that they're so easy to criticise.
For the life of me I cannot see why Vichy forces should have opposed the Anglo American units, can you?

[Lonnie]

Actually, jakes right in what he says, Churchill had the promise from the French Admiral, that if it looked like the gemans were going to board his ships, they would be scuttled, these were the ships still in French ports.

Chuchill either didn't believe him, or didn't want to take the risk.

Those ships, true to the Admirals word, were scuttled, and this was after the action jake describes.

[123everton]

Lonnie that's Mers El Kebir etc, this is the invasion of Algeria.
With regard Mers we had an agreement with the French that no separate peace or armistice could be negotiated, Petain ignored this.
The French navy could've taken there ships to the U.S which was then a neutral country.
Either way these forces had decided to denude the allies and their own now occupied citizens of equipment paid for by them with their tax money for the benefit of their liberation, their commanders betrayed their own people.
We had to attack Vichy French supply ships reguarly in the Med, what sanctions were taken against such collabarotors post war?
It's far easier to pick on women who went with the soldiers (for love?) than business men who went with them for money (Jersey and Guernesey too in that regard) or soldiers who did'nt command their own conciescences and object to the legitimacy of Vichy governance.

[123everton]

Vichy French soldiers fought quite hard against Free French soldiers in Syria 1941, they were allowed to change sides (nearly all of them did) I wonder how many marched into Paris for the liberation with De Gaulle?