shannon and chesapeake action

[janbee]

I have a coin type medallion (the size and colour of an old penny). On the front are the words "centenary of shannon and chesapeake action 1st June 1813." There is a picture of the ship and the dates 1813-1913. On the back are the words " presented by two grand-daughters of Captain Philip Broke". I have searched on google and there is a whole load of info about this BUT... not the info I'm looking for, which is, a) what is this medallion? b) why was it struck? c) how many were there? d) is it worth anything? e) who were the two grand-daughters?. I've also tried writing to the maritime./naval museum in Portsmouth but have never received a reply. I really want to know if anyone would like to have this and possibly any other descendents of Captain Philip Broke? Maybe there were loads of these things made and they are of no interest whatsoever. Can anyone enlighten me please as to what exactly this is? Thank you.

[bookbinder]

I was interested in your question and I have done some digging around, but, like you, I have found nothing to explain why the medallion was struck on the centenary of the naval action. I looked at these two websites:
http://www.nmmprints.com/image.php?id=392598
This is the National Maritime Museum website, which shows your medallion, and offers for sale prints of it. Perhaps you might get some information from the museum. I noted the artist/maker is given as C & S Co., so I looked for that on Google, but found nothing. The other website is:
http://query.nytimes.com.
This shows the New York Times of June 2nd 1913, with a report of a service to commemorate the centenary of the death in the action of Capt. Lawrence of the Chesapeake. I did not read all the article, but in the piece that I did read, there was no mention of a medallion.
I'm sorry that I can't be of any help, and I suppose that you have already seen these two websites, but I shall keep looking. Best of luck.

[janbee]

Thank you for replying Bookbinder. I REALLY appreciate it.I'll keep digging too and hopefully I can find the answers. Thanks again for your reply and info.

[ABerrant]

I can offer nothing further except that one sold on eBay 3 days ago for £41 +p&p

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk...tem&item=170446229524

[janbee]

Thank you ABerrant. I appreciate your info. It's very gratefully received.

[denis567]

Did you read the information that was supplied with the ebay link that Aberrant supplied?.
Perhaps if you contacted the seller of the medallion, he might have further information

[janbee]

Thank you Dennis. I'll try to do that. Thanks again

[bookbinder]

Hallo, janbee. here's what I've found so far. I looked at this website:
http://www.sothebys.c...rublandFamilyTree.pdf
I thought that, if the two grand-daughters could be found, it might lead somewhere. I found that Capt. Broke had at least one son, George Nathaniel Broke (1812-1887). I now know that he had 5 sons, only one of whom (Charles Acton) had any children. These children were: Philip Hamilton Acton; Caroline Louisa; Jane Ann; Frederica Mary Horatia. So, here are your grand-daughters, but you want 2 and here are 3! Which ones are your 2? Not Caroline Louisa, because she lived from 1850 to 1856 (the small letters on the above website are difficult to read), so the other 2 must be the ones whom you are seeking: Jane Ann lived from 1853? to 1933, and Frederica lived from 1854 to 1953? or 1933? So, Frederica married Sir Lambton Loraine, and Jane Ann married James St. Vincent (4th Baron de Saumarez). There may be some leads there. I shall carry on looking, and I hope that this is of some help to you. Let us all know if you find anything out. Best wishes.

[janbee]

Hi Bookbinder...you are a star my dear. Wow! I really appreciate all this extra info. I'll keep in touch and let you know how I get on. Thank you again. You've obviously worked very hard to get all this info. It's more than I could find.

[bookbinder]

Extra info. Jane Ann died on 17th January 1933, and her sister, Frederica Mary Horatia died one week later, on 24th January 1933. Strange, don't you think? But they were both alive when your medallion was presented in 1913. As yet, I haven't found out what they were doing in that year.

[bookbinder]

It's teatime, so I'll sign off for today. So far, I've gone round and round in circles. I've found many references to the naval action, and to those who were involved, but nothing that relates to your medallion. "The Times" archives have several articles on the subject, both from 1813 and from 1913, but you have to be a (paying) subscriber to see the full articles, and I didn't get the impression that any of them mentioned your medallion. A report in "The Times" of July 8th 1813 spells the captain's name as "Brooke", but that doesn't seem to be significant. Jane Ann became Baroness de Saumarez on her marriage to James St. Vincent. She was awarded the OBE in 1918. Frederica Mary had at least 2 sons: her eldest son, Eustace, was killed in a plane crash (he was in the RFC) on 5th July 1912; her second son, Percy, was a diplomat. He died in 1961. Percy was the 12th baronet. Some of the timbers from the "Chesapeake" were used in the building of a water mill, Chesapeake Mill, Wickham, Hampshire. So, plenty of info, but nothing that's of any use. I looked at the "London Gazette" for 1913, but no luck. That's it for now.

[Quentin_Crisp]

.

[janbee]

Yet again Bookbinder, I'm amazed at your "digging power". Were you a terrier in a previous life?? I'm VERY impressed. I haven't been able to find out any more. Your powers of digging are far superior to mine. I've now written to the Maritime Museum at Greenwich to see if they can shed any further light and to ask them if they want to have the medal. Many thanks yet again.

[bookbinder]

No, I wasn't a terrier in a previous life! One of my interests is history, including family history. I delved into my own family history a while ago, but I haven't bothered with it for some time. Your query looked quite interesting, but now I have to admit defeat. I know more about the naval action and the people who were involved in it than I would ever have thought possible, but I still can't discover anything about your medallion. I found a New York Times report on a small service at Capt. Lawrence's tomb (in New York City) in 1913, and I thought that your medallion might have been mentioned there, but it wasn't. So, all I can say is Best Of Luck. Over and out.

[janbee]

Many thanks yet again Bookbinder. I'm VERY VERY grateful for all your help. I'll let you know if I find out anything else and IF I get a reply from the Maritime Museum at Greenwich. You've given me more info than I was ever able to find out for myself and I REALLY appreciate it. Thanks again. Have a good weekend. It's pouring rain here in Sussex. Hope it's better where you are.

[bookbinder]

Hello, janbee. I've had another thought about your medallion. In 1906 a cruiser was launched at Chatham Dockyard, and that cruiser was named HMS Shannon. It had a crew of 54 officers and 849 enlisted men, a total of 903. My guess is that your medallion was struck on the initiative of the 2 grand-daughters of Capt. Broke because they felt that the centenary of an event as noteworthy as the capture of USS Chesapeake by HMS Shannon ought to be marked in some way. This is how I see the situation:
a) what is this medallion? It is a reminder of the naval action of 1813, which was sensational news on both sides of the Atlantic at the time.
b) why was it struck? It was struck because Capt. Broke's 2 surviving grand-daughters felt that such a notable anniversary of such a notable event ought not to go unremarked. A commemorative medallion presumably seemed to be the most suitable thing.
c) how many were there? 903, at least.
d) is it worth anything? £41 approximately.
e) who were the two grand-daughters? Jane Ann (1853-1933) and Frederica Mary Horatia (1854-1933).
No doubt the grand-daughters saw the opportunity of commemorating their grandfather's deed in such an appropriate manner (presenting medallions to the crew of the present-day HMS Shannon) as a way of squaring the circle, or tying up loose ends. No doubt the Shannon's log could provide that. I couldn't find out where the ship was in June 1913, but I'll try to find the ship's log for that period. If I knew where the ship was at that time, there might be a report in a local paper. Hmmm. I can feel some more digging coming on. That's it for now, janbee. I'll keep an eye on this site, just in case you get something from the NMM. Best of luck.

[janbee]

Just when I thought you couldn't amaze me anymore, you come up with a whole load of further information. I'm SOOOOO impressed. Thank you. I agree with your explantion of the" medal". I'll let you know as soon as I hear anything from the National Maritime Museum. Thanks again. You truly are amazing.

[janbee]

Morning Bookbinder. Just to let you know that I've heard from The Nat Maritime Museum. Their knowledge of it and the info they have given me is limited. In fact the info you have supplied is FAR superior. You have found out far more than the NMM seem to know. They don't want my medal as they say they already have three. They've suggested I contact the Ipswich museum as the Saumarez family seat is in Suffolk. So.... The Nat Maritime museum in Portsmouth haven't replied to my letter, the Nat Maritime museum in Greenwich don't want the medal, so I'll now try the Ipswich museum. Maybe third time lucky. I never thought it would be sooooo hard to give the medal away for free. Many thanks, yet again, for all your assistance in this saga.

[bookbinder]

Hallo janbee and thanks for your message. If my post on March 10 seemed disjointed, it's because I had to shorten it. I exceeded AB's limit of 2000 characters, so I had to delete a few sentences. Somehow, I'm not surprised at what you say about the NMM. I've looked at their website, and it's not been of any help to me. I knew about the archives in Suffolk, but they have nothing online. I have done some more digging, but I can't find any confirmation that medallions were presented to the crew of the Shannon in 1913. I respectfully suggest that might be the best explanation for now. Perhaps you could sell the medallion on ebay? I hope that the rain has stopped where you are. The snow has gone from here in West Yorkshire. So, janbee, it looks as if it really is Over And Out this time. It's been very interesting. Thank you for all your kind words. Best of luck.

[janbee]

Morning again Bookbinder. Just to let you know that, this morning, I got a reply from the Royal Naval Museum in Portsmouth. They would like to have my medal as they don't have one in their collection. They advise that commemorative medals were not produced by the Royal Navy or by family but usually commissioned by voluntary historic societies like the Nelson Society. There were several centenary medals crafted for battles from the Napoleonic war period between 1905-1914. The one commemorating the Shannon and Chesapeake was produced by the C & S Company and because it was privately produced, it's not known exactly how many were made. I just thought you'd like to know "the latest" on this saga. I've therefore decided to donate the medal to the Royal Naval Museum in Portsmouth. Also, to let you know, the RNM don't have much info on this subject. You were able to find out FAR more than they were able to. Yet again, I have to say thank you for all your hard work. If you're ever in the Brighton/Hove area let me know. I owe you a drink !!!

[bookbinder]

janbee, thanks for your message. "Saga" is the right word to describe your search for information, and the RNM doesn't appear to have thrown much light on this particular subject. I've done a bit of family research, and I'm used to going down blind alleys, so I'm not surprised at the lack of success that you and I have had. Someone, somewhere, must have left a record of this presentation, a diary, a letter, memoirs, etc. I'll keep looking, as and when I think of something. Your offer of a drink is the most promising result so far! I'm not expensive to entertain - a pint of bitter will do nicely! Thanks again, and I'll keep a listening watch (I think that that's the naval/military way of saying "I'll still be here, listening and watching.")