Argue against This

[Nenrulez]

There is more proof of Jesus Christ than Julius Caesar existing......


Does this change your opinion against Christ ?

Thanks appreciate any comments

Nen

[bernardo]

No it doesn't.

Nobody has ever seriously denied the existence of Jesus of Nazareth as a historically existing person, and nobody has ever seriously suggested that he is only fictional.

I believe that he was a normal politically active human being who was conceived illegitimately as a result of a pre-marital relationship between Joseph and Mary, and that he was not in any way a "Son of God" or whatever you want to call him.

[marchantino]

i agree with bernado`s opinion of jesus. whatever anyone says i reckon yes,he existed and was a thoroughly decent bloke.why cant we have politicians like him nowadays?

[kempie]

There is more proof of Jesus Christ than Julius Caesar existing...

Ignoring any religious issues I would tend to think this statement is false.

Proof would need to be physical evidence.  Julius Ceasar was mentioned in contempory writings from all parts of the Roman Empire and had his likeness struck onto coins, whereas the Gospels were written hundreds of years AD by people who could never have possibly met Jesus Christ, everything being based on oral tradition.

I'm not citing this as evidence that Jesus didn't exist, just that your argument is incorrect.

[bernardo]

I also agree with kempie, although I didn't say so in the first place because I didn't want to multiply the ridicule which results from the question anyway.

[Octavius]

What proof of existence are you referring to?  And why would it change my opinion?

[RevShirls]

I would have to agree that there is definitely a lot more tangible evidence for the existence of Julius Caesar including historical and pictorial records. This website will show you a  coin with Caesar's head on it:

http://www.24carat.co.uk/juliuscaesar.html

Having said that there is a lot of written material available indicating that Jesus existed (outwith the Bible). I, like Bernardo, would agree that Jesus was a politically and socially active human, conceived illegitimately - although I would, as a Christian, say that he was the "Son of God" in a manner of speaking, in that I believe that he reflected the nature of God - but that is a personal belief.

[El D]

Do you think he performed miracles revshirls?

 

As for the original question, be very wary of such statements. Blindly accepting such ambiguous claims is for the sheep, not the sharks ;)

[kempie]

There is more proof of sheep existing than sharks...  discuss  ;-)

[RevShirls]

Depends on the definition of a miracle, EL D. I don't discount miracles, nor do I put much weight on them - they are mostly irrelevant for my faith. A lot of things that people consider to be miraculous are not miraculous in the sense of being contrary to the laws of nature.

And I worry about the blind acceptance of the sheep ...

[Octavius]

Guide sheep for the blind? 

[Mr.Ix]

No good, they'd eventually be ewesless.

[El D]

Hmm interesting - most xstians regard the fact that Jesus performed miracles as central to their faith as without them there is no 'proof' of divinity and therefore no basis for 'Christ'ianity. Do you not regard the fact that you have decided to base your beliefs on a lay person with some ideas over and above other non-divine figures from history who equally represent and epitomise those qualities you prize as curious? <-long sentence :)

 

for those interested

 

http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/2002/3/023mail.html

 

scroll down to

 

Matson's historical criteria...


and enjoy

 

p.s Ix - nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[RevShirls]

Matson makes good and interesting points and there is certainly an element truth in the way in which the church has presented Jesus over the years. I tend to focus more on the humanity of Christ rather than the divinity - although the divinity aspect is important to me to. It may seem curious regarding my choice of following/adhering/being inspired by Jesus as there are many people (religious and non-religious) who (represent the views that I hold dearly. I think �t centres for me on a larger concept of God. I do feel a very strong sense of the presence of God, I see the same qualities that I consider to be "God-like" in the person of Jesus (equality, social justice, love, spirituality, compassion etc, barrier breaking, bridge building). I don't hold to views such as Jesus died for my sins etc.(because I don't believe in original sin) nor do I have a feeling of unworthiness that many Christians seem to feel. I can't buy a "Turn or Burn" theology. No parent would rate a place in my book if they consider their children to be unworthy and condemned them all the time - therefore, I cannot attribute such qualities to God but rather the historical churches trying to keep people in their place with scare tactics. I haven't really answered your question, El D. It's one of these things that requires long discussion and clear thought which I think I am incapable of right this minute as my 19 month old daughter wants to sit on my knee just now and keeps pressing the "z" key on my keyboard.

[El D]

Jesus may epitomise those values, but the biblical god most certainly does not. And why does the very presence of god not inspire you to similar feelings as opposed to the humanity of jesus? Not having a go very curious as many people who seriously consider and challenge their faith as opposed to lacking the will to question it often have distorted views of traditional faith. It seems like everyone has a personal god apart from the brainless.

[FatCharlie]

I don't have a personal god.  Was it your god who made me without a brain, El D?  That wasn't very kind.

[El D]

sigh

I take it you are atheist like me then?