Landlord Responsibilities

[geordiekaren]

Our scout group meets in a church hall (which we pay an hourly rate for) and we use the cellar for storage. While cleaning in the cellar the wooden steps (open stairs, not a ladder) between the cellar and the hall collapsed from under me. Luckily I only sustained bruises. On inspection of the stairs they had not been fixed in place, only wedged, and as the floor they rest on is a slope this appears to be an accident waiting the happen. The steps appear to have been fixed at one point as there was a bent nail embedded in the side at the top.
Basically what I'm wanting to know is have the church not fulfilled their responsibilities as landlords? I'm not looking for money or to sue (as I say I only sustained bruises), but they are being funny about the terms of our lease.

[black_cat51]

funny in what way?

[pixie373]

They do have responsibilities, but now you are aware it's unsafe, it's your responsibility not to use it. I would complain in writing, but also find somewhere else.

[boxtops]

OK, what does your lease say? It should be very specific about landlords and tenants' responsibilities, as to who maintains what, etc. Is the use of the cellar part of the lease?

I'd expect something like steps to be their responsibility, as they are part of the building.

Even though it's a church hall, they must have public liability insurance, and this would be covered by an accident like this. You'd have every right to sue if you wanted to. They MUST have an accident book for users of the hall to fill in - have you done that, you need to in order to comply with H&S legislation.

[boxtops]

Also (and I work with a couple of youth groups) you must make that cellar absolutely out of bounds to your group and particularly the youngsters, until the landlord has repaired the stairs. Make sure you are not paying for the use of the cellar during the time you can't have access to it.

[cassa333]

You pay an hourly rate to use the hall for scout meetings but what is the agreement for the storage of your kit? Do you pay for storage?

Not that that makes a lot of difference because the LL has an obligation to mek all the areas you have access to safe.

What exactly are they being difficult about with your lease? And by the lease do you mean hr rental agreement?

[buildersmate]

Yes, I agree it is unlikely to be lease but a rental agreement. They WILL have public liability insurance but perhaps prefer the hassle of having to admit to their insurers that a near-miss accident occurred. Call their bluff and ask to see the risk assessment for the hall for general hire use. That should put the wind up the trustees.

[buildersmate]

NOT having to admit....

[geordiekaren]

Thanks all. They are being funny saying we leave the place a mess etc and they don't want us there anymore because of it. The cellar is a little messy but we are the only ones who really use it (the church have one box down there) and it is not dangerous - it's hard to make camping equipment look tidy. We always leave the hall itself tidy, often tidier than when we arrived as the dance school in there before us is messy.
The access to the cellar where the stairs were has been secured (door locked from both sides and sign put up to warn people) and I've filled out our groups accident book. If the church have one I don't know where - it's not with their first aid kit. I have reported the incident.
I just wanted to check if I could complain as surely the maintenance of the building is their responsibility.

[boxtops]

Yes, it is. the fabric of the building is the responsibility of the owners.

[boxtops]

...but you do need to check that agreement and see exactly what it says, in case of future incident.

[Tuvok]

Take a photo of how the hall is when you arrive and again when you leave.

[Peter Pedant]

.yes it seems to be

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defective_Premises_Act_1972

see down to Landlords responsibilities.

what are they being funny about in the lease
clause that says they are not covered by the legislation ?

[Peter Pedant]

yes I thought they might be terminating the agreement

clearly there will terms in the document you signed

[boxtops]

Is it your local agreement with them, i.e. signed by your group, or is the agreement with the Scout organisation nationally? Won't make a difference to liability, but it might add red tape.