Extractor Fan In Bathroom And Kitchen

[Pening]

About 2 years ago, I put an extractor fan in my bathroom. It was done by a handyman (I am not sure if he is a handyman or builder, but will stick to handyman). How it works is when I pull the cord for the lights, the extractor fan starts together with the lights (and you can hear the sound of the fan). The vantalation goes up to the loft, I remember being informed by the handyman. The extractor fan is on the ceiling of my bathroom. I must be honest to say I am not sure how it works. I do not know if this is a new installation or a new circuit is used ? All I know is when I pull the cord to the lights in my bathroom, the extractor fan turns on at the same time. They must be sharing something. No certs come with it.

I regret not checking on regulations before work was done and not knowing what certs I need to have to ensure all are in good order. As of date, I am still not certain with the regulation sadly. I read there are regulations with regards to extractor fans in bathroom, I would just like to know how it effects me and what I must do to rectify the situation if I have to.

> Anyway, after putting the extractor fan in my bathroom, I asked an electrician to have further works done in my flat. As the fuse box was old, we changed the fuse box. He did some electrical works in my flat also. I ended up having a Domestic Electrical Installation Certificate from the electrician. I don't think this include the extractor fan as it wasn't done by him. This happens nearly 2 years ago.

> In this near 2 years, I had 2 EICR done due to change of tenancies. The results were 'satisfactory' with no works that needs to be done.

> With the EIC, and also EICR (2 of them) that I have done, does it cover the inspection on the extractor fan ? Do I need to have other certificates for the extractor fan ?

> What should I do now ? How do I rectify the situation if there are needs for rectification ? What would the approximate cost be for this working ?

> Also, there is a hooded / cooker extractor fan above my cooker that has already been there in the flat when I bought my flat. Although used previously by the last owner (as the switches looked used), the funtion of it is not logical as there is no escape for the vantalated air. The handyman I used made a hole on the wall of my flat and connected the extractor fan with the hole with a flexible ducting. Is there any regulations on this regard that I have to comply to ? What do I do from here if there are ?

[The Builder]

Firstly, Pening, it's perfectly normal to have a standard bathroom extractor connected to the lighting circuit. It's a very small load. Also, it's usual for it to be linked to the light switch. When the lights come on, so does the fan.
Officially, any bathroom work is notifiable (it has to go through Building Control.) If an electrician is "Part P" certified, then he can do the work without having to involve Building Control directly (this called "Self Certification")
A handyman is not likely to have done this. At the same time that the fan was fitted, it should all have been tested, and an RCD (earth trip) added to the circuit.
Assuming that a "Part P" electrician changed the consumer unit, then this would include an RCD... so ok there.... AND he would have self-certified.

This same chap issued the EICR. This covers all circuits and fittings (unless stated on the certificate because of restricted access etc)
The fan would have been included in the tests.

All fine there, but it leaves one possible issue. Was the original fan installation ever notified? It seems not. From a safety point of view, your whole installation has passed as satisfactory. That's the main thing. The original notification issue is merely a legal one.

Seeing that this is a rental, to put your mind at rest, ring your local Planning Dept. (District Council) and ask for Building Control. Ask how you can put the notification problem right. I anticipate that they will ask for a "Minor Electrical Works" form be submitted (inevitable fee of course.)

All of the above applies equally to the kitchen fan. Kitchens, as with bathrooms, are considered "special locations".

Assuming the handyman ducted to the outside, then, mechanically, that's fine.

[Pening]

Dear Builder, thank you very much for your kind reply and advices. Some further infos from my end :

- I am not sure about the cooker hood fan on top of the cooker. It was already there when i got the flat. I am assuming it wasn't notified. As for the extractor fan in the bathroom, it was not notified.

- When I first did PAT test for the flat, both the fans were tested, and it passed the test.

Could you advice the following please :

1) Bathroom Extractor Fan : Is it possible for me to still have a certified Part P electrician to certify the works after so long ? How to go about this ? You have mentioned the following, 'Assuming that a "Part P" electrician changed the consumer unit, then this would include an RCD... so ok there.... AND he would have self-certified.' Can this still be done ? If yes, this would have solved the constrain yes ?

2) As for the Hooded Cooker Fan, I am not sure if this is extractor fan. Checking from my PAT record, it states Hood. It can be switched on when cooking is done. This was done by the previous owner and I don't think there is any kind of notification. Does this kind of fan apply with the regulation as well ?

3) I am in a bit of a state here. If I contact the council, the Indemnity Insurance that I have before I purchase the flat would then be void, yes ? Is there anyway I can go around getting things right ? I understand working with a 3rd party to certify will also work ? But then again, the concern is it has been 2 years (for the bathroom fan) and longer for the fan in the kitchen. I am not sure how long - as the property was build in the mid 90s.

4) As I am typing all this, I realise there is also a bathroom heater fan that is installed on the wall of the bathroom that was there before I bought the flat. This brings my mind to - can a Part P be obtained years after works are done especially when they are not done by us and have not been notified ?

5) The electrician that issued the EICR for me is not the same as the person who install the fan.

I am so worried, confused, and scared with the realisation of this situation .. :(

[The Builder]

Ah, indemnity insurance. that's ok, but for what eventuality was this taken out exactly?

So sorry that I have to go out right now, but I shall give this more thought and post again tomorrow mid-morning.

Don't panic. We're talking legalities here NOT safety. There's always a solution.

[Pening]

The indemnity is for should there be any constrain with the flat concerning building regulations, etc, I think. I thought it would be wise to get the insurance.

Don't be sorry, Builder. You have been very helpful and have a calming effect on me which I very much appreciate. I wish you a very good evening, and I look forward to hearing from you tomorrow.

[The Builder]

Right Pening, so the Indemnity Insurance was put in place in the event that possible Building Control infringements might possibly come to the attention of local building Control?

As I said yesterday, there are two considerations. Most important is safety. You have a current EICR to confirm that the system is safe (assuming no stated exclusions.) So that side of things is fine.

The other consideration is legal. The insurance is often used where it is unlikely, or impossible to determine whether any "historic" works were carried out in accordance with Building Regulations. This happens all the time.

You have two options as I see it.

1 Leave things as they are. You have a fully tested and safe system which is up to date, and within the constraints of current electrical regulations.

2 Do as I suggested in my previous post, and contact Building Control with the aim of what they term "regularising" the situation. This would likely void the insurance, but then, it would no longer be needed.
Don't think of this option as merely poking the wasps' nest. Good Building Control officers (and there many of them) will tell you just what you need to do to put this right legally. Quite possibly a retrospective application. This, together with a current EICR, is likely to satisfy them.
On a point of human nature, a lot of electricians are reluctant to take responsibility for previous work done by others. The good ones will have no problem with inspecting and testing existing work since they are completely covered i.e. they test and comment solely on the works as they stand at present. Again, Building Control will guide you.

As far as I can see, you can safely take either course. This must be your decision, Pening. You'll know how you feel.

[Pening]

Thank you for your reply, Builder. I was just going through the EICR I have in hand. You have mentioned : You have a current EICR to confirm that the system is safe (assuming no stated exclusions).

Where can the stated exclusions be found on the EICR ?

[The Builder]

The forms can vary a little, but it's usually on the first page under your name and address.
You'll see something like...

D. EXTENT AND LIMITATIONS OF INSPECTION AND TESTING

Then there'll be a section where reasons are given. It's all pretty straightforward.
Also, there'll be a section for comments on the system in general, such as perhaps the assumed age of the system.

[Pening]

Ahh .. now I understand why you have mentioned I can leave the situation as they are and not do anything. I checked the cert, it covers 100% of installation and there is no comment on limitation. This gives me peace of mind. Thank you, Builder. You have been very helpful.

Also, just checking through. I have a water boiler in my bathroom that I do not use. I find that the socket is actually one that I plug into and switch on. I think this is not in accordance to regulation. If I would like to use this water boiler, and decide to change the current switch to a water heater switch, do I have to have a certificate for this working ? And must it be Part P certified ?

Do you btw have other ways I can contact you on for advices, if it is at all possible ?

[The Builder]

The socket in the bathroom worries me. Sockets in bathrooms must be protected by an RCD, which I assume it is. It should also be 3 metres from a "zone". This means it must be at least 3.6 metres from a bath or shower. It must be a pretty big bathroom! Is it a normal socket outlet?

Was this mentioned in the EICR?

Is it in an airing cupboard perhaps?

[Pening]

The bathroom is small. The socket is in the cupboard where the boiler is. The boiler is linked to the electricity socket with a plug at the moment. There is a door for the cupboard.

[The Builder]

Right, so that's cleared up then. Change the socket to an immersion switch. One with a neon would be best.

This is a simple job that is not notifiable. You can even do it yourself. No certification is needed.

Thank you for your comment. I'm glad to help. I'm afraid there is no messaging facility on this site. It's also against Site Rules to give out our real contact information. For the sake of the site, which we all enjoy, I really should ask that you post here with anything that you need help with. It does the site good to have a regular throughput.
Anyway... I'm not the only one here. There are so many people far more knowledgeable than I. If you put up a question, plenty of others can pile in to help you out.

[Pening]

Thank you very much, Builder. Much appreciate comment. Feel relieve to hear about the socket and immersion switch. And can understand about the contact and posting on here. I didn't know about the site rule, will keep all communications on here of course.

Thank you again for all your advices, Builder. Much appreciate kindness.