Boiler failed British Gas inspection - Powermax Boiler

[rosiewesti]

We have a powermax 185 open vent model, new 9 years ago, we have always had it serviced annually.
Over the years we have had replaced; Programmer, blending valve (due to hard water) We had installed last year a water softener on the advice of our plumber, which is great.
Friends of mine have gone onto the British Gas (BG)homecare plan - you pay a certain amount per month, and if anything goes wrong BG come out and fix within 24/48 hours. (3 out of 6 of these friends have never had their boilers serviced and they passed the inspection from BG)
We thought this was a good idea and registered in December 07, they said an engineer would call within 7 days and come to check the boiler to make sure its up to standard - they finally came this week cm 24.02.08

Boiler has been working fine, no problems as I told the engineer, but on checking it he said that the CO omissions should be 20 and that ours our 160, therefore the "Baffles" need replacing (8 of them) at a cost of �450.00 - labour will take 4 hours - I asked why none of the CO alarms have gone off (we have 2) and he said its still not high enough to set them off.

He also stated that even when the Baffles have been replaced it could be something else, but as its usually the baffles that cause this problem, they always replace them first.

I did ask him could he see that the baffles had slipped down and/or were worn away, he said no he could not see them and repeated the above to me.

He has now given me a written quote for ; gasket seal, gasket set, baffles x 8 and labour - but has not put a price down.
I really now do not know what to do, accept their advice and get the work done or should I get some estimates and/or boiler serviced and see what comes up. Boiler is not due for its annual service until May 08.

Sorry I have gone on a bit - any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

[LoftyLottie]

Rosie, I have no answers to give you, but there was a programme on the television about British Gas and their maintenance contracts only a few days ago. They are charging exorbitant prices and the expert they were talking to adviced people to take them up on their estimates but to employ reputable local plumbers and heating engineers.

I wish I could remember the programme, but it was an eye opener. Some guy had taken them up on an estimate to change their boiler and had then received a bill in the region of �4,000!!

[LoftyLottie]

Sorry should have said that this expert advised NOT to take up British Gas estimates.

[rosiewesti]

Would be great if you could remember the programme - it would be interesting to see!

[LoftyLottie]

I have racked my brains, but I just can't think of the programme. I just, however, googled British Gas Service Contracts and came up with some horror stories!! If I can think of the programme I will definitely come back and tell you Rosie.

[heathfield]

Hardly a week goes by without complaints about British Gas featuring on the Watchdog TV program.
Their service contract is rubbish, and expensive. A friend was told by a not-very-interested British Gas engineer that he'd need a new boiler. Instead, he contacted a plumber who fixed it by simply replacing a valve that cost about �15.00.

If I were you, I'd take Lofty's advice, and get second opinions from two different plumbers who have experience with Powermax boilers.

And cancel that service contract!

[rosiewesti]

Apparently as my boiler will not meet their exacting standards - my service contract is null and void! unless I have the work done that they say it needs. I have requested a refund of all the debits we have paid since December 07, which apparently I will receive by cheque within 14 days.

Had a bit of a panic tonight, no heating on when we returned from work! but the engineer had turned it off!

I did not mention earlier but just before he left he said he would like to look in the loft at the flue, when I asked why he said just for his peace of mind that it was not coming loose or anything - I very politely told him " you have just informed me that my boiler is not up to BG standards and given me a large quote, so there is no way I am letting you near my flue!!
He had also been booked to service our gas fire - but I would not let him and told him the same as above - getting a refund for this too!

Thanks everyone for your replies - they have all really helped me as I was wondering if I was over reacting!

[LoftyLottie]

My son, who has a very old boiler, employs a local man to do a service every year at a very reasonable price. His latest advice on the boiler was that, although it wasn't as economical as the modern ones, it was still performing safely and had a good few years left.

I doubt if British Gas would have said anything like that!

Glad we have helped Rosie and hope you get things sorted.

[terence7556]

hi rosie
my son has a powermax 140 so i found out a bit about them thru google and they do not enjoy a good reputation.BG serviced one and the result was a fatality to the customer but it is not easy to get the info on what happened.
i serviced my son,s from the manual provided foc by baxi potterton, very prompt.the essential part ,amongst other things, is the replacement of the burner gasket,�6.50 retail.
and checking for leaks.it took me 2 hours, not bad i thought for the first time i touched one and i removed and cleaned the baffles after dropping out the sump.your quote seems high but the choice is yours.
they are DEFINATELY the cheap end of the boiler range and i would consider putting the �450 towards a new one. at 9 yrs old how much economic life is left in it? see sept 07 which for a boiler report free at the library
sos to go on so long but i felt advice would help you rather than join in the BG bash

[terence7556]

p.s. i know 4 people with the BG contract and they are happy with the service, which provides them with peace of mind but i dont recall them having a difficult time with BG like yourself
good luck

[LoftyLottie]

Not a BG bash, but I think if you find a local registered plumber/heating engineer then a yearly service with them will give you just as much peace of mind as when something really expensive goes wrong - then the BG contract often does not cover you. These service contracts with the big companies need looking at very closely before you sign up to one.

[gucciman]

hi rosie, i'm a trainee heating engineer, i work with my father who has 48 yrs experience, 35 of those with british gas including 20 as a training instructor and he was regarded as bg's main combi boiler expert.
as far as bg's service contract goes, as with any other gas companies service contracts, they aren't prepared to take a gamble, they are edging their bets so that they only take on boilers that they think aren't going to cause them problems or cost them money. we recently serviced a boiler for a customer and bg had cancelled their service contract just because the boiler was 10 yrs old.
bg also have a habit of telling everyone that their boilers are obsolete or beyond repair and then trying to sell them a new one, (the engineers get commission for every new boiler sold) be very wary of this, if you find an older very skilled gasman they can often keep the old appliances running for years to come..
bg arent the same company as they were 20 years ago. the govt decided to sell them off and break their monopoly, they used to have the best trained engineers bar none. since the sell off they laid off a third of the workforce, closed all the depots and most of their training centres and stopped taking on apprentices and pulled out of most work except central heating. now they have decided to try and get back into the repairs, installation and servicing market of fires, cookers, warm air etc so have had to take on a load of new engineers who haven't had the training that the old style engineers did.

[gucciman]

my advice to you and everyone else is to try and find a small independant firm to do your work or preferably an ex-bg engineer who now works for himself. ask around and try to get some reccomendations. you can also try contacting your council or help the aged who both keep lists of reputable tradesmen.
if your in the birmingham area let me know and we could take a look at your boiler.
its hard to say whether a contract is worth taking out or not, a service from a small independant company could be from �40 to �70 say, a breakdown can be very expensive with fans and circuit boards costing anything from �100 to �200, but if you do have a contract are they going to try and find a get out clause to avoid doing the work?

[LoftyLottie]

Wow, what a brilliant answer Gucciman. I hope rosie comes back here to see it.

[emeritus]

Terence you need to be careful unless you are CORGI registered you should not be touching gas appliances it is illegal. Apologies if you are

[LoftyLottie]

I would take it as read that he is, especially with his background.

[gucciman]

reading terences post i would say he definately isn't corgi registered.

[LoftyLottie]

Whoops sorry, I was thinking of your postings Gucciman and not Terence. Many, many apologies emeritus. :o(

[rosiewesti]

Thanks for all your answers and advice but there is still one thing worrying me;

" he said that the CO omissions should be 20 and that ours is 160,"
When I asked him is this dangerous and if so why our CO detectors had not gone off - he said that maybe the CO emmisions were not yet high enough to set them off. When I asked him what level is dangerous, he said it all depends?

Our street is 10 years old this year and not one of us has had yet to replace the boiler, and mine is also still working fine.
Thanks for the offer Gucciman - but I live in Andover, Hants.

I have just yesterday got a recommendation of a local engineer from a friend, I will give him a ring today.