The British And Property Ownership

[Khandro]

Do you think the British, and the English in particular, are inordinately attached to owning property, and is the belief among the young that they must at any cost get on the 'property ladder', leading them into the burden of debt and unfortunate circumstances?

[ummmm]

Yes. An Englishmans home is his castle....

I think in much of Europe is commonplace to rent.

[andy-hughes]

I do wonder if the spiralling house prices which force most first-time buyers out of the market will break the mold of home ownership.

As you say Khandro, my generation, and all before, were drilled that the ownership of a house was of vital importance - but this does seem to be a British cultural tradition not shared by other nations.

My older daughters own their houses, but the youngest rents and is currently a student, so no sign of a mortage for her just yet - but she seems pretty sanguine about the whole thing - maye a sign of things to come?

[Old_Geezer]

No, I think the rest of the world is inordinately attached to not owning their own home, which IMO is rather strange.

But homes should come with land and be freehold, otherwise you have a point. That said it is difficult when younger but pays dividends when older and all you do is maintain and have a good asset rather than still paying rent.

[woofgang]

inordinately attached? No I don't think so. I also don't think that "the young" all believe one thing any more than "the old" do

[jomifl]

It is far better than renting, since rents go up but mortgage repayments on average drop relative to the cost of living.

[Cloverjo]

Yes. Before I met my OH I assumed I would never own my own place. (Single mother). I don't know how my son is ever going to get there. It used to be easier. Save up several thousand pounds for a deposit, get a decent job, and you can have a house.
Now, they have so much more to worry about.
In America, they seem to have a better attitude to renting and so it should be.

[237SJ]

Yes but some other countries are the same (Australia). The trouble with renting in this country is the shortage of long term lets. My cousin in Germany has lived in the same flat for years and his rent is reasonable. In this country, tennants get shoved from pillar to post and pay ridiculous prices in some areas. A small 2 bed unfurnished terrace is £1300 pm around here and there is nothing to show at the end of it. It`s probably cheaper to buy.

[whiskeryron]

No. Wasn't it a cunning plan mooted by TTTs favourite lady?

[Maydup]

I think its related to our attitude toward the elderly. Snce we don't live in an extended family way anymore, unless we own our own homes, we have the prospect of paying rent when we have retired. That's scary....and either involves claiming benefits or spending any private pension or investments. I feel much happier owning a roof over my head.

[ummmm]

I'm 41 and will be mortgage free in 5 years.

[paddywak]

When I was made redundant from BC we used most of the redundancy money to pay off the mortgage,a lot of people thought we were stupid.It's not a mansion only a semi-detached bungalow but it's nice to look at it and know it's all ours.

[Khandro]

My parents lived all their lives in a property owned by the community (council), it was built in the 30's in a garden suburb, a lovely 3 bedroom house, with gardens front and back. The rent was fixed, reasonable and the same for everyone around them. If anything needed repair it was seen to quickly and effectively, and they had property-carefree life.
In the 60's economists reckoned that a family should spend no more than about 7% of their income on housing. Today I see couples struggling to pay large mortgages leading to crazy life-styles; both working, children left in crèches and worried about finding the money for a new boiler etc.
I'm wondering if it is all worth it, it seems that private property is both a blessing and a curse.

[Zacs-Master]

Khandro, it has been very common (the 'norm' perhaps) for both parents of children to be working for at least 30 years, so let's take off those rose tinted specs and throw them away shall we. No one has mentioned the tens of thousands of pounds worth of debt many young people start out in life with and for me, that is the main problem with young people being in debt and the property market being in crisis.
I know statistics are frowned upon by some but apparently were 33rd in the list of European home ownership.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rate

[Zacs-Master]

The tens of thousands reference was for university leavers. To clarify.

[whiskeryron]

Hear Hear Khandro

[kvalidir]

It's frequently more expensive to rent though Khandro and the UK offers tenants very little in terms of protection compared to say Germany for example. you then have a lot of landlords who don't want children, dogs, people who own vans, over 65's in some instances and tenancies which are normally 6 or 12 months maximum, so you have a very limited capacity for having a happy stress free life imho if you rent. We rent out quite a few properties and try to be nice, fair and not make unreasonable restrictions but it's left me very glad I'll never have to rent.

[tamborine]

2b council flats here are £92pw & private lets £200+pw. Acquiring a council flat is determined on income. If Ctenants have 2+ holidays pa, eyebrows are raised, with big brother intrusion. Imo social housing keeps people less aspirational.

[woofgang]

I do think though that expectations were lower. Do those people who worry about buying a new boiler expect to have mobile phones? holidays? takeaway food? laptop computers You know the sort of thing I mean. When we moved into out first house we had enough money saved for a bed, some MFI furniture and a fridge and cooker. The china and cutlery and linen were wedding presents and our parents gave us some of their pots and pans and odds and ends.
Not going the "in my day we lived in a shoebox thing" but expectations have changed.

[whiskeryron]

In Birmingham Cadbury's built a whole estate of beautiful rented houses to be let to their workers for their lifetime, I believe that other thoughtful manufacturers did the same in other parts of the UK. This surely was a good thing & relieved working people from the burden of finding large amounts of cash to be used for buying houses. Local councils also took up the task & one could have their name added to a waiting list until a house became available. Then along came ''The Great Lady'' with her lofty ideas & put the working classes into debt. The idea would have been good to give choices to people but the mistake was not allowing councils to use the cash from sales of Council Houses to build more, this caused a severe shortage of properties for rental which is of course affecting the present situation regarding people who are required to downsize from houses they have lived in all of their lives to avoid the so called Bedroom Tax. So I think that the renting of social housing should once again be re thought.

[Old_Geezer]

I'm not young but when I was paying a mortgage I don't recall ever being as low as 7% of my income. Much of the time I'd estimate (without having to dig paperwork out and try to work it out) it would have been around 30%.

I still suspect the cries of how awful it is today are not acknowledging the sacrifices folk made in the past in order to own a place of their own. My social life was seriously curtailed, as were my holidays. But it is ultimately worth it (unless the government suddenly decides your sacrifices were for nothing, that they have to help those who frittered their money away on other things and give little to those prudent enough to try to look after themselves).

As for renting, I have both rented out and rented accommodation to live in at various times in my past. I never felt I had some kind of upper hand in either situation. I think it depends on the individuals. But I think legislation one has to conform to these days would put me off providing homes as an income. Don't need the stress.

And yet there is a need for rented accommodation for those of low income, as I am under the impression that there is not sufficient council housing to not rely on the private sector; and even some folk who think they are morally right to continue to live in the authority provided housing when their fortunes have improved and they could afford to move on. It clogs up the system for those in genuine need.