How Can I Legally Prove That I Didn't Know Something

[Marinamal]

I have been found intentionally homeless by my council because I truly didn't know I could apply to them for housing benefit and left my first ever rented property because i ran out of money to pay the rent. They are saying that i did know but i have never had any reason to claim these types of benefit.
Do they have to prove I had knowledge of these benefits or do i have to prove i didn't? Please help

[EcclesCake]

I'm not sure you can prove a negative so I can't see how you can further that argument.

Why didn't you speak to the council when you were running low on money rather than do nothing?

[Peter Pedant]

The usual rule is being applied

if you leave a property in rent arrears then you are held to have made yourself intentionally homeless

so I dont think they have to prove it either way

[bednobs]

you can't prove a nebulous negative, legally or otherwise. Even if you could, it wouldn't do you any good. Councils rarely change their minds

[joko]

not sure how you could prove it - how would you even try?
its pretty well known that most basically the government help people who need money to live ... so i cant think there are many people who would not know there must be something they can do, or who would not at least try

[lcg]

no, they do not have to prove anything. you left a rented property of your own free will.....and that is the law as applied to homelessness practice. you are intentionally homeless and they do not have to house you unless you can prove you are in a priority need. as you have no money....how are YOU going to take them to court to prove otherwise? i suggest you get off your bum and concentrate on getting somewhere to live and a deposit. that will be a far better use of your time and money. you could ask them nicely if they will help, but if you have been difficult or offensive in any way, they will not lift a finger - deposit schemes are discretionary and will be allocated by the department themselves....to those they feel are deserving and genuine. like it or not - it was up to you to find out what your options were before you made yourself homeless.

[themas]

1. Did you leave voluntarily or were you evicted after the landlord got a Court order? - which he could do without any problem if you were in rent arrears of more than 2 months.

2. If you left voluntarily it will be extremely difficult if not impossible to get the Council to accept that you are not intentionally homeless.

3. If there was a Court order then it may be worth appealing the Council decision. I assume you made a formal homeless application - the Council should have told you that you could do so & if they didn't then you need to return to them and insist on making one. They then must give you a decision in writing and tell you in it what your appeal rights are.

4. It is impossible to prove a negative but you would have to convince the Council that you had never had any reason to claim benefits and were unaware that you could do so to help with the rent. The very fact that you applied to them indicates that you were aware that they might have a duty to house you. When did you learn that? If you knew some time before the eviction then they will consider you should have approached them at that stage. If you go ahead with an appeal you will have a difficult time winning. You need to think carefully about exactly what you knew when to make the best case you can.

[Marinamal]

Thank you themas,
I left voluntarily because i had an informal opportunity to work abroad and i have never been in arrears or had anything to do with the benefits system I have worked all my life and was only a tenant in this one flat. They don't believe I didn't know about benefits as they think everyone is a candidate for jeremy kyle. I am one of the few who has worked for 35 years so that others can make the most of benefits. I believe, having read the entire housing act and the gov guidelines that if you make an error in good faith or due to lack of knowledge you can not be classed as intentionally homeless so that was really my question, how can i prove it?I suppose i should have been more specific in asking the question on here but have never used the site before and didn't expect morons (not you themas) to tell me to get off my ass. I have severe suicidal clinical depression and agoraphobia along with other mental health conditions so the fight with the council has been torture for me and i am almost out of strength and don't want to go on as my life is now not worth living. I am asking for a review of the decision because of bias and discrimination (have worked for 12 hours so far correcting the misinformation they stated in the decision and am only a third of the way through it) if i have the energy and am still alive will also ask for a judicial review. They have to act within the law and have not done so in my case but see me as an easy target because of my fragile mental health. A council employee told me "off the record" that i should contact my MP as what they were doing to me was "disgusting" and again if I am well enough I will.
Many thanks themas for at least not judging and asking relevant questions. Marina

[Envo]

Also try your local Citizens' Advice - always knowledgeable and helpful in cases like these.

[Hypognosis]

@Marinamal

Putting myself in the council worker's shoes, for a moment, I find it hard to believe that all the benefit claimant bashing the media has done in the past decade or so could have escaped your attention and you should have been aware of the existence of housing benefit.

Are you saying you just didn't realise that a working person, such as yourself, could qualify for it?

Also, I am not understanding the sequence of events properly. If you are working, how did you get so low on money that you couldn't pay the rent?

In the meantime, this forum has a great bunch of people, many of whom have got through depression and you can turn to them for support when you feel low and for advice about treatments (maybe a separate thread). Some of them are up at all hours of the night. Presumably, you can only post while the internet cafe is open?

[Marinamal]

Hypognis,
Your answer has made me realize I have no chance of being believed. I will answer your questions though and then tomorrow will unsubscribe from this site as I was looking for answers and have received none only judgements and assumptions.
I was made redundant in 2009 and a year later sold my house and used the money to try and start a business, I also invested heavily in the stock market and traded currencies. The business failed and gradually my investments tanked. I made many bad decisions over the last 5 years not helped by my descent into mental illness. Last year my last investments suddenly were completely wiped out and before getting into arrears with the rent took an offer to go to mexico and live rent free with the prospect of working there. That didn't work out so I came back and stayed with friends until I could sort myself out but became too ill to cope and eventually applied to the council as a last resort. Previously I had always owned my own house and never claimed any benefits as I earned a decent salary working in the west end for over 25 years. I have lived a glamorous and privileged life so my sad story(of which there is much much more) would make great tabloid headlines, " Ex playboy bunny found dead after Ealing council's failure to act within the law and house her"
As for popular culture like reality TV and all the other nonsense that makes up today's society it holds no interest for me and I couldn't tell you who won the last big brother or xfactor so yes I have read about benefits but still had no perception of myself as anything other than an independant person, basically I just didn't or wasn't capable of thinking. Clearly I should obviously not have gone abroad and given up my flat and tried to sort out the mess I had made myself but thats what I did so here I am. As you rightly state who is ever going to believe that? Therefore I would like to change the thread and ask if anyone could tell me how to access a gun or tell me the best drugs to take to end this nightmare. I don't need sympathy or someone to talk to and this isnt a cry for help. I know that when I am ready to go the samaritans will talk to me at the end so I wont be completely alone, and for that I am grateful although using a gun would be my preferred option as its quick and unlikely to fail.
Thank you for helping me to clarify my options
Marina

[scorpiojo]

Marina

No-one on this site will tell you how to access a gun or tell you the best drugs to take. Is your GP helpful? Have you had any help from a Community Psychiatric Nurse or other mental health worker? Perhaps contacting Mind would help? There is a section in the website concerning housing:

http://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/housing/support-in-a-housing-crisis/?o=10160#.VPZxp4aQGrU

[joko]

maybe you should go to the papers then? and your mp = cause a fuss- i daresay you are not the only person in this situation.

why cant you just find a small flat somewhere that takes dss, sign on and claim housing?
what difference does it make what you could have got - you are entitled to it now.

or are you wanting the council to find you a house or something?

[themas]

You should not be trying to cope with this alone - either the problem with the Council or your mental health issues.

Please do involve your local CAB, who may be able to help you with the Council. Or else contact your MP.

As already said, you should be able to get help with your health from your GP &/or local mental health team as well as various charities. What is most important is to try to keep a positive outlook and work through the problems you currently have. Don't give in!