ChatterBank0 min ago
Family Court - What Happens?
My other half has now submitted his papers to the court to try and gain contact with his daughter as his ex won't allow it. She's sent a message along the lines of "can't believe what you've done" so I'm assuming she's received something from the court but does anyone know what that would be? As he's representing himself (can't afford a solicitor), can anybody tell me in what order things happen next? Can she refuse to go to court? She's very bitter with him so think she'll try anything she can to put a spike in the wheels! I'm obviously there to help where I can, so any comments gratefully received!
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From my experience with Family Court, the magistrates will look with sympathy on a case involving a father's right to see his estranged child.
The mother may have received a summons for the case to be heard. If so, a date will be set, and each side will make its representations for the reasons why access should be allowed or denied.
If the mother simply does not like her ex, and is denying access for that reason, then the court is highly unlikely to side with her.
Unless she can provide a considerable amount of valid evidence that access to the child is going to cause emotional damage of physical harm - both of which are impossible to prove in advance - then access is likely to be granted.
If the court rules in favour, then access can be requested, and will be determined by the court, and ordered accordingly.
Failure by the mother to act in accordance with the order will render her liable to sanction which can start with community service, and can be ramped up to a prison sentence.
The mother may have received a summons for the case to be heard. If so, a date will be set, and each side will make its representations for the reasons why access should be allowed or denied.
If the mother simply does not like her ex, and is denying access for that reason, then the court is highly unlikely to side with her.
Unless she can provide a considerable amount of valid evidence that access to the child is going to cause emotional damage of physical harm - both of which are impossible to prove in advance - then access is likely to be granted.
If the court rules in favour, then access can be requested, and will be determined by the court, and ordered accordingly.
Failure by the mother to act in accordance with the order will render her liable to sanction which can start with community service, and can be ramped up to a prison sentence.
Thanks for that, very informative. She's said in the past it would cause emotional problems to their daughter if he saw her. He's actually bumped into them in a supermarket, daughter still recognised him (she's only young) and was talking to him and after that, he was getting messages from his ex saying she's all confused now and upset and it was all his fault!
I've said just to be honest about everything but to make it all about their daughter and not to say anything bad about his ex - however much he'd love to! Is that about right?
I've said just to be honest about everything but to make it all about their daughter and not to say anything bad about his ex - however much he'd love to! Is that about right?
Indeed - the court will be used to hearing 'He said / she said' and it will not sway their judgement one iota.
As I have said, the notion that access 'may cause emotional damage' will carry no weight with the court. They will only consider facts - a documented history of abuse, drug issues, and similar.
They may take into account the suitability of accommodation if overnight stays are in the picture - and the court may well put them there.
But as far as anything other than factual evidence of unsuitability, your OH should be able to reasonably expect his case for access to be heard sympathetically.
As I have said, the notion that access 'may cause emotional damage' will carry no weight with the court. They will only consider facts - a documented history of abuse, drug issues, and similar.
They may take into account the suitability of accommodation if overnight stays are in the picture - and the court may well put them there.
But as far as anything other than factual evidence of unsuitability, your OH should be able to reasonably expect his case for access to be heard sympathetically.
buffymad - //All quite different from the messages he's now receiving from her saying everyone she's spoken to says he has nothing to gain! //
People want to be supportive, and they may be using their emotions as their yardstick of what they think should happen.
Of course, none of that will matter at all.
As advised, the court will rule dispassionately, and they are very much in favour of father access. Some would say that after the influence of the 'Fathers For Justice' Campaign, that the pendulum has swung too far the other way - but be that as it may, they are still highly likely to rule in favour of access for your partner, unless there are very good grounds to deny it.
The responsibility, in the eyes of the court, lies with the mother to prove why the father should not have access, rather than for the father to prove that he should.
People want to be supportive, and they may be using their emotions as their yardstick of what they think should happen.
Of course, none of that will matter at all.
As advised, the court will rule dispassionately, and they are very much in favour of father access. Some would say that after the influence of the 'Fathers For Justice' Campaign, that the pendulum has swung too far the other way - but be that as it may, they are still highly likely to rule in favour of access for your partner, unless there are very good grounds to deny it.
The responsibility, in the eyes of the court, lies with the mother to prove why the father should not have access, rather than for the father to prove that he should.
Fathers rights are VERY high in the priority of Family courts now.
The father will certainly be granted access.
If your daughter does not go to court ( she can not be forced to attend) the case will proceed without her and only the Father's side of the case will be considered. If or rather when, the court do grant access, the order must be complied with. If the 2 parties can not agree an acceptable arrangement for the access ( the court also must also agree that it is acceptable) then the order can be imposed on them. For example the mother can be ordered to leave the child with a relative or friend so that the father can pick the child up from them. If there are no suitable or willing relative or friends , then there are 'children's centrers' run by local councils. One parent can be ordered to leave the child at a children's center so hat the other parent can pick the child up from the centre.
I know all of this due to personal experience with my grand daughter and her father.
Finally there are no 'rights' to any relative in a case like this.The only 'rights' are those of the child. There is just one overriding rule for family courts and that is to do whatever is 'in the best interests of the child'
The court WILL decide that the father has a right to access so the mother will just have to live with it!
The father will certainly be granted access.
If your daughter does not go to court ( she can not be forced to attend) the case will proceed without her and only the Father's side of the case will be considered. If or rather when, the court do grant access, the order must be complied with. If the 2 parties can not agree an acceptable arrangement for the access ( the court also must also agree that it is acceptable) then the order can be imposed on them. For example the mother can be ordered to leave the child with a relative or friend so that the father can pick the child up from them. If there are no suitable or willing relative or friends , then there are 'children's centrers' run by local councils. One parent can be ordered to leave the child at a children's center so hat the other parent can pick the child up from the centre.
I know all of this due to personal experience with my grand daughter and her father.
Finally there are no 'rights' to any relative in a case like this.The only 'rights' are those of the child. There is just one overriding rule for family courts and that is to do whatever is 'in the best interests of the child'
The court WILL decide that the father has a right to access so the mother will just have to live with it!
Eddie - //There is just one overriding rule for family courts and that is to do whatever is 'in the best interests of the child' //
I agree entirely with your post - the only concept open to interpretation is exactly what the 'rights of the child' are, and indeed, what is right for the child.
My youngest daughter's marriage broke up after violence, and she left the marital home when her son was two.
Two years later, her ex-husband applied for access to his son via the Family Court - no preamble, no personal request, which would have been granted - straight to court.
Supervised access was granted, and contact began at a local contact centre, progressing to four hours of contact on a Saturday, as agreed by the court.
Following an incident in a local park when my daughter was threated with physical violence by her ex-father-in-law (he was cautioned by the police) - an incident that frightened her son so much he soiled himself, my daughter denied contact on the next weekend, fearing for her child's safety, since it was to the parental home that he was taken by her ex.
A return to court saw the court rule in her ex's favour.
Her son has had to meet his father each Wedneday for tea, and now has to spend every other weekend with his father at his father's girlfriend's house. My daughter is not allowed to know the address where he stays, she must 'trust' her ex-husband says the court.
The girlfriend of her ex husband has a child who hits my grandson, and shuts him in rooms. My grandson cries each time he goes, the first time, he refused, my son-in-law's mother dragged him from his car seat and pinned him in her sons car seat, and he was driven away screaming.
No-one has ever asked my grandson if he would like to see his father.
My grandson is just six years old.
The upside of all this for byffymad and her partner is that - even after the circumstances outlined, the court saw my daughter's withdrawal of contact as contempt, and she received eighty hours of community service suspended for two years.
Unless buffymand's partner is a recognised murderer, he is unlikely to have is request for access denied.
I agree entirely with your post - the only concept open to interpretation is exactly what the 'rights of the child' are, and indeed, what is right for the child.
My youngest daughter's marriage broke up after violence, and she left the marital home when her son was two.
Two years later, her ex-husband applied for access to his son via the Family Court - no preamble, no personal request, which would have been granted - straight to court.
Supervised access was granted, and contact began at a local contact centre, progressing to four hours of contact on a Saturday, as agreed by the court.
Following an incident in a local park when my daughter was threated with physical violence by her ex-father-in-law (he was cautioned by the police) - an incident that frightened her son so much he soiled himself, my daughter denied contact on the next weekend, fearing for her child's safety, since it was to the parental home that he was taken by her ex.
A return to court saw the court rule in her ex's favour.
Her son has had to meet his father each Wedneday for tea, and now has to spend every other weekend with his father at his father's girlfriend's house. My daughter is not allowed to know the address where he stays, she must 'trust' her ex-husband says the court.
The girlfriend of her ex husband has a child who hits my grandson, and shuts him in rooms. My grandson cries each time he goes, the first time, he refused, my son-in-law's mother dragged him from his car seat and pinned him in her sons car seat, and he was driven away screaming.
No-one has ever asked my grandson if he would like to see his father.
My grandson is just six years old.
The upside of all this for byffymad and her partner is that - even after the circumstances outlined, the court saw my daughter's withdrawal of contact as contempt, and she received eighty hours of community service suspended for two years.
Unless buffymand's partner is a recognised murderer, he is unlikely to have is request for access denied.
He's certainly not a threat to his daughter in any way. She's just got a bee in her bonnet as she used to call the shots and say when he could see her, to fit around her - whether that be really early in the morning or whatever. When he couldn't do that a couple of times because of being TOLD he had to go into work (his attendance wasn't great then so he didn't dare say no), she stopped him seeing her! There were also issues once or twice with maintenance (again down to his work not paying him what he was owed) but that's been sorted for ages now and comes out of his wages before he even gets it.
This is the first time he's had funds to actually do this, he's had no one there to help with that previously and so some time has elapsed (year's not months). Although he explained this on the form submitted to the court, will this have any bearing on the outcome?
Otherwise I'm very happy to hear what everyone is saying!
This is the first time he's had funds to actually do this, he's had no one there to help with that previously and so some time has elapsed (year's not months). Although he explained this on the form submitted to the court, will this have any bearing on the outcome?
Otherwise I'm very happy to hear what everyone is saying!
buffymad - I would suggest that absence of contact is unlikely to go against your partner.
From the facts provided, it would appear he has a strong case.
Please wish hum luck, and let us know how he goes on.
BTW - if he is not used to court procedure - and there is no reason why he would be - advise him to watch the other side's solicitor for tips on presentation - ways of addressing the magistrates and so on.
From the facts provided, it would appear he has a strong case.
Please wish hum luck, and let us know how he goes on.
BTW - if he is not used to court procedure - and there is no reason why he would be - advise him to watch the other side's solicitor for tips on presentation - ways of addressing the magistrates and so on.
I certainly will.
Last question (I hope). He's living with his parents but spends most of his time at mine. Would that go against him at all? His (well meaning) friend seemed to think it would look like he's got no fixed abode and flitting around. Whereas I thought being at mine most of the time shows a stable relationship.
Last question (I hope). He's living with his parents but spends most of his time at mine. Would that go against him at all? His (well meaning) friend seemed to think it would look like he's got no fixed abode and flitting around. Whereas I thought being at mine most of the time shows a stable relationship.
buffymad , The court will look at the entire situation, but your OH will have to provide an address as his 'permanent' residence and which will be the place where he will be taking the child on his access times.
Andy, what the court decides is ''In the child's best interest'' is different in every case. The court considers each case independently and makes a decision.
Andy, what the court decides is ''In the child's best interest'' is different in every case. The court considers each case independently and makes a decision.
So could he not say his parents' address is his permanent address but he'd plan to see his daughter at mine as it's less busy (true)? His ex doesn't like his parents so would probably have an issue with their daughter being taken there (she had an issue when he originally had contact).
Another thought (so sorry about all this). If contact was granted one day a week, what happens if he wants to go on holiday and/or his ex wants to go on holiday with daughter - and thereby messing up the contact?
Another thought (so sorry about all this). If contact was granted one day a week, what happens if he wants to go on holiday and/or his ex wants to go on holiday with daughter - and thereby messing up the contact?
buffymad - //Another thought (so sorry about all this). If contact was granted one day a week, what happens if he wants to go on holiday and/or his ex wants to go on holiday with daughter - and thereby messing up the contact? //
As advised, every case is individual, and the court will look to both parents to make arrangements in the child's best interest.
The mother will not be able to unreasonably deny access as per the court order, but obvious exceptions can be negotiated in advance to cover illness and holidays.
The rule is, the less the court and solicitors have to be involved, the better for everyone - but the court order is paramount and must be adhered to, in order to avoid sanctions.
As advised, every case is individual, and the court will look to both parents to make arrangements in the child's best interest.
The mother will not be able to unreasonably deny access as per the court order, but obvious exceptions can be negotiated in advance to cover illness and holidays.
The rule is, the less the court and solicitors have to be involved, the better for everyone - but the court order is paramount and must be adhered to, in order to avoid sanctions.
Andy ^ things like that are agreed between the two parties, it would be unworkable if the 2 parents had to get a court ruling over every temporary variation.
bufftmad. The ideal situation would be for you to be named in the access as a safe place person for the child to be 'dropped off' by one parent for pick up by the other. That is the situation in my case. The mother ( my daughter) has to drop off her daughter at our house 15 mins before the father arrives to pick her up. It is reversed on the 'hand back'. It means we are regarded as suitable 'safe place' for the child to be.
In actual fact the Mum and Dad managed to sort things out between them after a while and they now talk to each other and co-operate over their daughters care. I would hope agreement would happen between your OH's daughter and the mother, once the initial animosity was over.
bufftmad. The ideal situation would be for you to be named in the access as a safe place person for the child to be 'dropped off' by one parent for pick up by the other. That is the situation in my case. The mother ( my daughter) has to drop off her daughter at our house 15 mins before the father arrives to pick her up. It is reversed on the 'hand back'. It means we are regarded as suitable 'safe place' for the child to be.
In actual fact the Mum and Dad managed to sort things out between them after a while and they now talk to each other and co-operate over their daughters care. I would hope agreement would happen between your OH's daughter and the mother, once the initial animosity was over.
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