Crosswords1 min ago
charged with fraud by misrepresentation
32 Answers
I am to appear in crown court on the above.The amounts involved are about £11,000 in total which were altering the payee's name on 15 cheques to the name of another bank account. There are another 2 charges which hopefully, on solicitor's advice, I will plead not guilty to which were 1) using software registered to another company and forging their director's signature to continue using that software. The purge certificate was handed to another person to take to my ex co-director for him to sign and this person therefore must have forged this signature.2) telling a company that took over our telephone line without our confirmation or our landline operator's agreement. The company were told that we were ceasing our business,because of ill health, and about 4 months down the line we decided to continue it and then after a further 8 months paid the termination fee invoice that we had forgotten about.
The company was a jointly run company with me only receiving expenses and about one pound a hour in salary. The 15 cheques which were diverted were used to pay off the final £12,000 plus of a debt which was still owed to the previous owner of the client list. I paid this previous owner £33,000 out of my own money. For this I only received £15,000 for my half share of the client list/shares and suffered a loss of over £8,000 I had paid out for legitimate expenses of the business. The previous client list owner threatened me with letters, phone calls and at my house,when he brought with him a thug to make sure I paid. He then sent a threatening text message followed by a slashing of one of my car's tyres a couple of weeks later, this resulted in a near head on collision as our car skidded off thec road. The first threats were in 2004 and 2005 and the final threats in September 2007. I also owe a personal friend £36,000 I had borrowed off him to buy the client list and am now in a financial mess with my wife being very ill and unable to work. I intend to plead guilty to the 15 counts. Any advice on what sentence I can expect? Any advice also on what financial help my wife can get,already turned down for dependent living allowance twice,to give her money to continue to pay the debts and some money to live on. I am also the unpaid carer for her mum and uncle, in that it is me that has to transport them and my wife to doctors and hospital appointments?
The company was a jointly run company with me only receiving expenses and about one pound a hour in salary. The 15 cheques which were diverted were used to pay off the final £12,000 plus of a debt which was still owed to the previous owner of the client list. I paid this previous owner £33,000 out of my own money. For this I only received £15,000 for my half share of the client list/shares and suffered a loss of over £8,000 I had paid out for legitimate expenses of the business. The previous client list owner threatened me with letters, phone calls and at my house,when he brought with him a thug to make sure I paid. He then sent a threatening text message followed by a slashing of one of my car's tyres a couple of weeks later, this resulted in a near head on collision as our car skidded off thec road. The first threats were in 2004 and 2005 and the final threats in September 2007. I also owe a personal friend £36,000 I had borrowed off him to buy the client list and am now in a financial mess with my wife being very ill and unable to work. I intend to plead guilty to the 15 counts. Any advice on what sentence I can expect? Any advice also on what financial help my wife can get,already turned down for dependent living allowance twice,to give her money to continue to pay the debts and some money to live on. I am also the unpaid carer for her mum and uncle, in that it is me that has to transport them and my wife to doctors and hospital appointments?
Answers
Hi folks,
It appears I may be given a suspended sentence but a very large POCA fine and compensation
It appears I may be given a suspended sentence but a very large POCA fine and compensation
14:31 Wed 28th Sep 2011
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in answer to pink kittens
I've practically been unemployed for last two years,not claiming anything but WFTC,and we have had to borrow money to help pay our mortgage. Until two weeks ago I was still looking for work putting in a hundred job applications a week. To complicate things more I've been ripped off by a tenant who, to get his rent reduced, was collecting other trents for me- the matter is now in police hands.As far as the £11,000 is concerned I've borrowd money to pay the fraudulent sum off. If you managed to read my question you would see that I've been living on and working 3000 hours per year at the rate of £1 per hour yes one pound per hour.
I've practically been unemployed for last two years,not claiming anything but WFTC,and we have had to borrow money to help pay our mortgage. Until two weeks ago I was still looking for work putting in a hundred job applications a week. To complicate things more I've been ripped off by a tenant who, to get his rent reduced, was collecting other trents for me- the matter is now in police hands.As far as the £11,000 is concerned I've borrowd money to pay the fraudulent sum off. If you managed to read my question you would see that I've been living on and working 3000 hours per year at the rate of £1 per hour yes one pound per hour.
Yes found guilty of council tax benefit fraud. The council ignored the £36,000 loan I had taken on to pay for above business.The money was saved temporarily until the person the business was purchased off came out of prison. I wish I had not gone down this line of finance and just been murdered it would have saved a lot of hassle.
that's you look out
If you decide to defraud people out of money I still fail to see why you expect your wife, or rather the state as you are asking about benefits to "to give her money to continue to pay the debts", to carry on paying for them.
Why would the council be interested in any loans you took out for your business?
They are interested only in the fact you claimed CTB fraudulently
I assure you I did read your VERY difficult to read question (paragraphs etc help a lot) but the one thing that stood out to me was the fact you expect someone else to pay back money YOU stole
If you have been claiming WTC then you must have been able to prove you work 16 hours or more per week so you are not 'practically unemployed' and if that *is* the case, then WTC will want to know about it and therefore you have been claiming that under fraudulent means as well
To quote sandyroe "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive."
If you decide to defraud people out of money I still fail to see why you expect your wife, or rather the state as you are asking about benefits to "to give her money to continue to pay the debts", to carry on paying for them.
Why would the council be interested in any loans you took out for your business?
They are interested only in the fact you claimed CTB fraudulently
I assure you I did read your VERY difficult to read question (paragraphs etc help a lot) but the one thing that stood out to me was the fact you expect someone else to pay back money YOU stole
If you have been claiming WTC then you must have been able to prove you work 16 hours or more per week so you are not 'practically unemployed' and if that *is* the case, then WTC will want to know about it and therefore you have been claiming that under fraudulent means as well
To quote sandyroe "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive."
Assuming your debts (whether fraudulent or not) are in your sole name your wife has no responsibility for them at all and should not pay anything towards them.
If (as you seem to think likely) you are imprisoned, your wife should get help to claim whatever benefits she is entitled to. In some circumstances, this can include help with the mortgage. Eddie mentioned CAB in relation to DLA. They can also advise on any other benefit matters.
If (as you seem to think likely) you are imprisoned, your wife should get help to claim whatever benefits she is entitled to. In some circumstances, this can include help with the mortgage. Eddie mentioned CAB in relation to DLA. They can also advise on any other benefit matters.
PINK KITTENS you talk rubbish. You are obviously illiterate I said I have THE£11000 saved up to pay back. Obviously you are a women's libber, well me and my wife have a joint seasonal business where we both work and I also work part-time. The joint business has gone down with the recession and due to my wife's illness I have had to put my health problems on hold and work very hard. We also suffered a flood and the insurance company has not paid out completely. My wife cannot work, due to chronic aneamia and fibroids and menstrual bleeding non-stop, and as far as I can see all you want to do is kick us down further. No offence was actually committed regarding CTB as the council lashed everything up and lost paperwork. I've always worked very hard and until 2004 never had to rely on state help. People like you are pompous beyond belief and are the main cause behind the rioting in this country. I suggest you go back and bury your head in the sand and give no further answers.
I'm not going to comment on the question because I can't be assed to try and make sense of such a poorly written travesty and try to dissect whatever is right or wrong, but show some manners and stop being rude to people who have at least taken the trouble just because you don't agree with an answer given.
Trying to read your extremely garbled posts you own several properties and employ a third party to collect rents.
What employment were you in that paid £1 per hour?
Why did you alter cheques?
Why did you borrow £36k if you earn £1 per hour and have a sick wife?
In fairness mother in law, uncle and wife could use taxis or ring and ride.
I'm not without sympathy but I have read your posts several times and can't get to the bottom of the problem.
If you are found guilty of fraud by false representation in the magistrates court the maximum sentence is 12 months imprisonment.
If it is Crown Court the maximum is ten years.
It is impossible to predict your sentence. A fine is the alternative but you are not in a situation to pay it.
If you do go to prison your wife will be entitled to the usual benefits of a single person, including mortgage interest payments and council tax benefits, for a while at least.
What employment were you in that paid £1 per hour?
Why did you alter cheques?
Why did you borrow £36k if you earn £1 per hour and have a sick wife?
In fairness mother in law, uncle and wife could use taxis or ring and ride.
I'm not without sympathy but I have read your posts several times and can't get to the bottom of the problem.
If you are found guilty of fraud by false representation in the magistrates court the maximum sentence is 12 months imprisonment.
If it is Crown Court the maximum is ten years.
It is impossible to predict your sentence. A fine is the alternative but you are not in a situation to pay it.
If you do go to prison your wife will be entitled to the usual benefits of a single person, including mortgage interest payments and council tax benefits, for a while at least.
And your other replies mean what? Done they get a thank you at least?
YOU stole the money, therefore YOU are the thief. Why the heck should anyone but YOU pay it back?
*If* you really do have 11k saved to pay it back, why have you not done so already?
And, can you please tell everyone here how you managed to save that amount on £1 per hour?! I think the whole of AB would love to know - in fact, I personally think you should share that knowledge with the whole world!
YOU stole the money, therefore YOU are the thief. Why the heck should anyone but YOU pay it back?
*If* you really do have 11k saved to pay it back, why have you not done so already?
And, can you please tell everyone here how you managed to save that amount on £1 per hour?! I think the whole of AB would love to know - in fact, I personally think you should share that knowledge with the whole world!
There are some very astute and helpful people on Answerbank but I'd be surprised if anyone can follow all of this and I can't even see what the legal question is.
I assume you have a solicitor. He will have some knowledge of this and I suggest he is in a far, far better position to advise than any of us are.
But if you do want advice on here I suggest you need to try to restate the key points and your question in less than 100 words.
I assume you have a solicitor. He will have some knowledge of this and I suggest he is in a far, far better position to advise than any of us are.
But if you do want advice on here I suggest you need to try to restate the key points and your question in less than 100 words.
The £11k isn't "savings", you say you've borrowed it, adding even further to your indebtedness.
anton - responding as you have to the frank opinions of people who are trying to understand everything about your very complicated post won't help you. You have got yourself into this mess and you can't blame others for pointing this out. It's your wife I feel sorry for, being unwell and caught up in all this tangle.
anton - responding as you have to the frank opinions of people who are trying to understand everything about your very complicated post won't help you. You have got yourself into this mess and you can't blame others for pointing this out. It's your wife I feel sorry for, being unwell and caught up in all this tangle.
TO PINK KITTENS
The thing I did not explain is our business is as a partnership and my line of work is self employment.The partnership has large borrowings to buy the property and business.Both me and my wife work 32 hours per week seasonly in the partnership and in the year so far have lost £3k. I then do about 15 hour per week in my self employed capacity but need to travel to see clients and need stationery,equipment etc to do so.These things legally entitle us to WFTC which is not claimed fraudulently.If I was to find employment in this capacity I would be earning in the region of £24k to £30k per annum but due to several thousand failed job applications because of my age etc thihis has not been possible and if it had our claim for WFTC would have ceased. In no way am I trying to put the responsibility of my debts onto the state or my wife,it is unbelievable how most people come to that conclusion. On top of all this I am unpaid carer for my wife as well as helping my wife in her capacity as carer for her mom,who is seriously ill in hospital.My illness as to be put aside because of all that is going on and I am now waiting for further tests for bowel cancer,as you can see live is not a bed of roses for any of us.
The thing I did not explain is our business is as a partnership and my line of work is self employment.The partnership has large borrowings to buy the property and business.Both me and my wife work 32 hours per week seasonly in the partnership and in the year so far have lost £3k. I then do about 15 hour per week in my self employed capacity but need to travel to see clients and need stationery,equipment etc to do so.These things legally entitle us to WFTC which is not claimed fraudulently.If I was to find employment in this capacity I would be earning in the region of £24k to £30k per annum but due to several thousand failed job applications because of my age etc thihis has not been possible and if it had our claim for WFTC would have ceased. In no way am I trying to put the responsibility of my debts onto the state or my wife,it is unbelievable how most people come to that conclusion. On top of all this I am unpaid carer for my wife as well as helping my wife in her capacity as carer for her mom,who is seriously ill in hospital.My illness as to be put aside because of all that is going on and I am now waiting for further tests for bowel cancer,as you can see live is not a bed of roses for any of us.
