Am I Allowed To Have A Normal Tv On The Wall (Kitchen) Playing Standard Freeview Channels In My Workplace With A Fully Paid Tv Licence?

[CharlieJack]

Am I allowed to have a normal TV on the wall (kitchen) playing standard freeview channels in my workplace with a fully paid tv licence?
I ask because someone told me that I must also pay some other fee for paying music from that tv, even if it's background music from programs or adverts. I thought th licence allows me to enjoy the tv without any obligations to any other 3rd party?

[Prudie]

Yes if other work colleagues can watch it you will be chased by PRS and PPL for payment too.

[Buenchico]

Quote 1:
"A PPL licence is required when recorded music, including radio and TV, is played in public. There is no statutory definition of 'playing in public' (also sometimes referred to as 'public performance') but the UK courts have given guidance on its meaning and ruled that it is any playing of music outside of a domestic setting – so, for example, playing recorded music at a workplace, public event or in the course of any business activities is considered to be 'playing in public'. In contrast, any recorded music being played as part of domestic home life or when there is an audience entirely comprised of friends and/or family (such as at a private family party) does not require a PPL licence."

Quote 2:
"(Q:) Do I need a licence from both PPL and PRS for Music?
(A:) PPL and PRS for Music are two separate independent companies and in most instances a licence is required from both organisations for you to legally play recorded music in public. While both organisations licence the use of music and collect royalties for the music industry, each represents different rights holders and have separate licences, terms and conditions"

Source for both quotes above:
http://www.ppluk.com/I-Play-Music/Businesses/Why-do-I-need-a-licence/#doineedalicence

Quote 3:
"If music is ever played on your premises for customers or staff; for example, through radio, TV, CD, MP3 or computer speakers, or at live events, this is considered a ‘public performance’ . The Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 states you need to get permission from the copyright holder to ‘perform’ music in public – and a music licence grants you this permission."

Source:
http://www.prsformusic.com/users/businessesandliveevents/Pages/DoIneedalicence.aspx

So you probably require two licences in addition to your TV licence (which only gives you permission to install or use a TV set, not for a 'public' [i.e. 'non-domestic'] performance of music. However if you were only, for example, to watch the BBC News Channel then (or other non-music channels) no additional licences would be required.

[CharlieJack]

Thanks, but the tv is used to view , sky news, or bbc news, maybe a sport event. There is no music, i.e a full record / song played, only incidental / background music - I understand the reasons for it but it seems wrong that the tv licence holder has to pay additional costs when it is the channel who chooses to transmit it? We choose to watch a channel, if there is music then why is that our issue?
I presume it doesn't apply to homeowners.

[CharlieJack]

Thanks all, still feel it's a con. Appreciate royalties etc are due but if the producers chhose to output it then they should foot the bill?

[CharlieJack]

If it was a dedicated music channel like MTV or a full concert then I understand it, I don't necessarily ag to it.
But I'm just referring to incidental jingles/music that we all here in adverts, programme breaks, opening/closing of programmes.
Quote 3:
"If music is ever played on your premises for customers or staff; for example, through radio, TV, CD, MP3 or computer speakers, or at live events, this is considered a ‘public performance’ . The Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 states you need to get permission from the copyright holder to ‘perform’ music in public – and a music licence grants you this permission."

[EDDIE51]

Is the kitchen the one in your home or in another 'workplace'. It is not clear to me if you mean that you work from home in your kitchen or you work in another kitchen. If you work in another kitchen then the place you work needs it's own TV licence.

[CharlieJack]

Thank you, it's a TV in the workplace kitchen, not at home. It's usually on the news channel but sometimes changed to events such as the olympics or football. It's not used to specifically play music to an audience from start to finish, it's used to view normal TV. Inevatably, there is always going to be incidental music, snippets, etc from adverts etc so I was wondering if I need to pay to PPL for that. To be honest, it's not viewed all that much but just runs in the background. Sound is on but not too loud. From the answers given (I'd like to thank everyone, all have been most helpful) I'm leaning to the conclusion that I am not liable to pay to PPL

[EDDIE51]

You don't have to pay PPL but the workplace DOES need a TV licence of its own. Your licence does not allow you to take a TV to work unless the workplace has its own licence. You can take a radio no licence needed for that, but a 'home' TV licence only lets you take the TV to a mobile/ holiday home / boat on a temporary basis such as a holiday not to use a TV at work.
( then again as long as nobody tells them they are not likedly to find out)

[boxtops]

Surely though, Eddie, if you take your own radio to work, if more than 3 people can hear it, we're back to the PPL question? We ran this gauntlet in our office - only we could hear the music but our employer said if we had the window opening, passers-by would be able to hear it :-(

[EDDIE51]

^^ In theory yes. But every kitchen I have ever worked in ( and there are quite a few) has a radio playing in the background, none of them have paid for PPL or ever been asked to pay. The kitchen I work in at present has 30 staff plus delivery people etc and no one has ever thought to get a PPL licence.

[Prudie]

I don't think anyone actually contacts PRS or PPL and asks if they have to pay. They have an army of aggressive call centre workers who ring round cold. It's just luck that they haven't got to you yet. I can assure you Eddie that if they knew you would certainly have to pay for 30 people listening to a radio. I know because I handle it for my workplace and we have to pay them 1000s a year.

[EDDIE51]

In the actual canteen we TV sets on the news channel, so thinking about it possibly that covers the kitchen radio. There will be a PPL for that as we serve 1,000 meals a day.

[joko]

surely if its in the staff kitchen it is not a 'public' place so doesnt count
i thought it only applied if it was out on the shop floor or where customers were...?

[hammerman]

Well i never knew this. I have a radio in my mess room at work which can be heard by up to 10 of my volunteers and community payback staff. Please don't tell me i need a license.

What about the radio in the works van ?