Smart Meters

[vernonk]

Do they really help you making savings, as the promotion leaflets claim?

[Old_Geezer]

How could they ? If you want to use less energy and a lower standard of comfort/convenience you can already do it.

It's all about giving control to the company who pushes them, and having the associated risks, and paying for them in the long run.

[donny48]

No they don't , if you are energy aware they do not make a difference. They will show big power consumers to the people who have never looked into it. One thing to beware of is smart meters are not compatible between power companies, ridiculous , I changed companies recently and have had to revert to reading my smart meter as one would read a normal one.

[Togo]

Vern do you need a meter to tell you what you have switched on? The suppliers do though, the meter is to monitor your usage. Swerve.

[EDDIE51]

Smart Meters have one purpose only, to give control to the power companies. What they do not tell you is that ALL smart meters have A 'Remote Disconnect' facility. This is exactly what it says, it is a means for the power company to disconnect your electricity without having to come to your house and disconnect the meter, they can do it from their computer system.
They say that this will only be used in a 'power shortfall emergency' , in other words if there is a power shortage they will disconnect ordinary households to make what power there is available to vital services like Hospitals, public services and essential industry.
However they have been forced to admit that they can also use it to change you to another tariff , prepayment, if you get into arrears on your bill.
Smart meters also 'ration' power by charging different rates at different times. For example they charge the highest rate at peak times , lunch hour and 4 to 7pm on weekday evenings. This is when demand for power is high from homes but industry is still using it as well. Of course they say this is to help you 'save money' by changing the times you use the most power!

[fiction-factory]

Eddie you raise this every time but I just don't believe it is a risk worth considering. Don't hospitals have facilities anyway for maintaining power in the event of outages.

[fiction-factory]

I meant to say I was referring to the remote disconnect facility during times of power shortages

[donny48]

// Smart meters also 'ration' power by charging different rates at different times. //
I never saw a sign of this practice and I am aware enough to know if it was happening. When first installed I played with making a log to see usage etc. and if this charging different rates was happening I would have seen it.

[fiction-factory]

I don't really agree with that, O_G- yes some of us are aware of what we are using but many people are just not aware of where it's going. Teenagers just tend to leave lights, computers, TVs on when out of the room and some parents would find it useful to have some information to hand to help them show the effects. And some people have little idea which items use up most power- kettles? tumble dryers? However I do think some of those who don't know would probably not be bothered to monitor the smart meter either

[fiction-factory]

Donny, maybe Eddie means that they could be used to charge differential rates. There are some schemes that already have differential rates, (free weekends or Economy 7/10) but some of those have been around a long time and don't require a new smart meter. Besides, as long as the peak and cheap times were published and fixed I can see it makes sense to ration power in this way.

[EDDIE51]

Hospitals have standby generators but they can not supply the power to maintain full service only 'life support' applications.
donny , The facility to charge higher rates at peak times exists even though it is not being implemented at the moment, once the entire country has smart meters which is planned the 'load spreading', to use their term, will start!

[donny48]

Where do you get this information ? I would like to read your sources.

[EDDIE51]

Read this it explains it all
https://www.kamstrup.com/en-uk/business-areas/electricity-metering/demand-side-management

[fiction-factory]

Load spreading makes sense though Eddie doesn't it- we want to avoid power outages. Costs may come down too since at present the generating companies produce more power than they need to ensure they have enough to cope with peaks

[EDDIE51]

They call it 'peak shedding' see para 6 of the first page!^

[donny48]

I don't deny a smart meter has the capability to do this but where is your proof that this is what will happen ?

[EDDIE51]

ff yes it does make sense, I am not arguing that point. I am saying that the power companies are not being honest in their advertising. They are saying it is about getting your electricity under control and saving money, when it is about handing control to them.
I accept it is inevitable and we will soon have no choice. Smart meters are going to become compulsory. They are just trying to get as many as possible to change voluntarily.
This entire project is necessary because we abandoned our Nuclear power program back in the 1970s when we were world leaders. If it had gone on as planned there would be so much power available none of this would be necessary!

[douglas9401]

No, they don't help you make savings, how could they? The meter records usage and sends readings to your power company.
It can, like any meter, show how much you use and when you get the bill, how much you're due.
Any savings are down to the consumer changing habits or upgrading their homes to be better insulated and more efficient.
In any event, somebody will have your cash from you, whether it be power companies or suppliers of the more efficient, more expensive appliances.

[EDDIE51]

donny , The UK has a major shortfall in generating capacity. This is as I just said due to the abandonment of the Nuclear power program back in the 1970s . The generating capacity is supposed to be 150% of average usage. Our current generation capacity is around 110% of average usage and that will get worse until the first of the new French/Chinese built power stations come online in 15 to 20 years time. We not only abandoned Nuclear power we abandoned all training facilities for Nuclear engineering. That is why we, as one time world leaders, now have to rely on the Chinese and French to build Nuclear power stations for us as we do not even have anyone with the skills to design and build them!

[fiction-factory]

douglas- they DO help you make savings if they show you how much you are using at any time so you can take corrective action (oh, looks I've left the outside light or kids have gone out and left their xbox and TV on or wow the tumble dryer is using a lot and it's sunny/windy outside). You have to act on it of course- if one chooses not to look at it or act on it then I'd agree there are no savings

[douglas9401]

Any meter, smart, dumb or just not fulfilling it's potential will tell you if your consumption is higher than expected.
The wee wheel will be spinning like a peerie, the numbers will click over at an alarming rate or flashing lights will give an indication of high use.
It's just a reporter.