How to drill into Lath & Plaster walls?

[oceanauk]

I have a very old house with lath and plaster walls and I'm having a nightmare with trying to put things into the wall. I am trying to fix up a curtain rail. I purchased some self drive screws which apparently should have worked but didnt. Do I need floret anchors instead and do I need to pre-drill using a masony bit or will this cause further damage. The self drive screws just spun round in the wall producing a lovely mess of what looks like fine sand! Also the lath and plaster is very thin, only about an inch thick and behind that is brick! I'm hoping this is only the case because it's my outside wall and at least my other walls may be a bit more sturdier!! Any advice would be much appreciated!! Thanks, Jackie

[Hard@it]

You could use various types of expanding and spring fixings, but you would be better finding the centre upright and one at each side. then fix a 65mm by whatever length batten to the wall, then fix your curtain fittings. ( The uprights will take a reasonably good screw, make sure any trial holes are in the centre line of your proposed batten length, and lightly tapping should find the upright with a dull sound ) Hard@it

[oceanauk]

That's great Hard@it - think this may be my only other option!!

[bookermel]

It is almost impossible to fix successfully to lath and plaster you have to locate the upright ( stud) timber and fix into that. If I have understood your post you say ther is brick behind the plaster that you are fixing to if that is the case you need to fix into the brick not the plaster. If it is an outside wall it is unlikly to be lath and plaster rather hair and lime plaster straight onto the brick. To fix firmly drill a hole with a masonary bit (5.5mm approx) and insert a rawl plug making sure that the rawl plug is into the brick not just the plaster!. Then fix your screw into this. The hole for the rawl plug should be slightly deeper then the lenght of the rawlplug to allow the screw to go right through the rawlplug to ensure proper grip into the brick. you may need to buy a longer screw then has been provided to allow for the dept of the plaster in and older property. If you are having problems finding two strong fixings you could fix a batten of timber accross the whole lenght remembering to make each fixing into the brick using rawlplugs and then fix your curtian rail to this using wood screws.

Good luck
Mel

[Sphinx_Svens]

spring toggle fixing would be fine ...don't start screwing ugly battens to your wall

[jake-the-peg]

If it is old lime plaster and old laths spring toggle and most expanding or butterfly and anchor fixings will most likly pull through unless coping with the lightest of load. You could try them but may have to replace them after any usage! It would be best to fix to the solid brick behind or find an upright. Hard@it is also right! If you do need to fix a batten it need not be too heavy and if you slightly round the edges and paint it the same colour as the wall it will merge into the background and have a reasonably authentic cottage finish. As you have already found old plaster is crumbly!!

[Hard@it]

the term batten in this case is a length of wood of the size and length that suits the job, and is not 'ugly'. . it is far better than having spring toggles etc popping out through operating the curtains. Furthermore there is no house built or nodernised where this system is not used. i stated 65mm but 42 or 50 would do just as well, it need not be more than 15-2omm thk. Hard@it

[oceanauk]

Ok everybody thanks for taking the time to respond. I filled my previous holes and sanded them down and repainted! To bookermel; unfortunately the stud timber has disappeared due to the age of the property and I can assure you it is definately lath and plaster straight over brickwork!! Hence my previous problems. However, I have done exactly as you've suggested and it's certainly done the job - the fixings are not going anywhere! I think with this being an outside wall, this situation is unusual and I hope I will not have this problem with the rest of the walls!! I would have put up a baton as a last resort but luckly didn't have to this time; I don't think they're ugly but they don't look great even when painted. This lath and plaster is really horrible stuff - the extra long screws I used were about 6" long and went straight into the brickwork (used a long masony drill bit first then put in an expanding rawl plug) so they are now completely rigid. I am interested in what spring toggle fixings are Sphinx_Svens? I am certainly learning lots doing all this DIY!! Many thanks again for all your responses!! Jackie